038 How To Judge Your Mentors: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 28

So you hire a coach, a mentor, a teacher, how can you trust what they're teaching you? 
Tali and Cody discuss some key elements and strategies for getting the most out of your mentor relationships. 

00:43 Intro

01:53 Nuno Bettencourt

09:36 How to judge your mentors, teachers, leaders, and coaches. Having a guide is good. Blind obedience is not!

11:28 How can you know something? Francis Bacon and the scientific method: According to Bacon, learning and knowledge all derive from the basis of inductive reasoning.

15:32 What are your values and incentives? What are your mentor's values and incentives? Screen your mentors - that discernment requires self-knowledge.

22:59 Even though we live in an "information age", it still holds true that you often get what you pay for!

26:46 The Final Attempt: Mentors can be more effective if they acknowledge where their students are at. Collaboration need not be off the table. And a great mentor will instill agency in their students.

33:10 Two things to gain trust in a mentor: 1) Are they collaborative and customizing info? Or is it top-down and generic? 2) Can they provide a justification for why they're teaching what they're teaching?

36:55 It's reassuring when you find a mentor who can admit when they don't know something. It becomes easier to trust what they say they do know. In addition, we can more readily trust a mentor who expects us to outgrow them rather than having a life-long or open-ended reliance on them. 

53:19 You are the only person responsible for your own decisions. So, speak up when you need to and take ownership of all of your own actions!

54:39 Separate ideas from personalities. Create a habit of considering ideas on their own merit, regardless of the source.

01:00:14 Tucker: The Man And His Dream

Couples - Proven Fitness & Intimacy Practices To Achieve Your Health and Relationship Goals Together!
To learn more or book a brainstorming call, visit HowToFitTogether.com

Contribute to this conversation by hitting the orange button HERE!

Subscribe to our weekly Take 5 Friday Newsletter. Each week we explore our Podcast topic a little further in 5 categories: 1: Fitness Training, 2: Nutrition, 3: Relationships, 4: Personal Development, 5: Points To Ponder

Public Facebook Page
Join Our Private Facebook Group

Follow us on:

Our YouTube: Exercise Demos. Personal Development Takeaways, and more!

TikTok

Instagram

Many of the links provided in our show notes are affiliate links. These cost you nothing to click on, but greatly support our show! Thank you!

We love ALL feedback. Contact us here!

Transcript

Cody: 0:56

Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh. And I'm

Tali: 0:58

Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness Podcast on the Live

Cody: 1:03

All Your Life Network.

Tali: 1:23

Hey, honey. Ooh, perfect timing for the heater to turn off. how's it going? Good. I just realized that my little extra recording device is here. Oh, there, it's, that's for you. It turns out that the. Little microphones that we got. The lapel mics need to go back. Yeah.$50 is not a sufficient budget for such a thing. I broke the fourth wall. I just did it. Is that what you're looking at me for? I'm still talking to you though. I'm not talking to everybody else.

Cody: 1:56

Yeah, you were. All right. So maybe I'll just leave that whole thing in so we all have it.

Tali: 2:07

Can I get a witness? What do we have in here? Decaf. Decaf. Thanks. Yes. That's exciting. Not only do we have decaf, but we also on my phone have the stupid bowl. No, it's the Super Bowl. Oh. Today. And we're not really watching it obviously because we've decided to record instead of watch it. But we're really in it for the halftime show. I'm in it for Rihanna and.

Cody: 2:33

Yeah. And Rihanna's guitar player is Nuno Bettencourt, who's my childhood guitar hero, been watching this dude 35 years or so. And if you don't know who Nuno Bettencourt is, look him up. Thank me. Later.

Tali: 2:49

Speaking of Guitar Hero, I think a fun icebreaker could be the Game Guitar Hero. I know we both have played it. Yes. What is the most challenging song you were ever able to play on it?

Cody: 3:03

I don't think I played it enough to be able to remember that. Sorry to say, but I do have a fun story about it. Okay. So I got rock band for Christmas for the kids the first year that all the instruments came out, like the drums. and the guitar and the microphone all came as a big kit. Mm-hmm. And I got it for the kid. Cause I have three kids and there's three stations. And so we got that as like a Christmas gift. And that's an epic Christmas gift. It was, it was really fun. And Reagan, who was I believe six at the time ball cute, was having a hard time with the guitar and the older kids were like, wanting to dominate the microphone. Of course. And so she got stuck on the drum kit and it turns out she was like, this virtuoso, like unbelievable. Like picked up right, right on it. Like within a few seconds she was just like killing it. And everyone is like, holy crap. Like she, she could play the drums. It was really funny.

Tali: 4:03

So I would imagine if all the instruments, the drum probably translates the most. Yeah. Cause the guitar doesn't, could you, it's like a couple buttons and like a flippy thing.

Cody: 4:13

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, she was like legit playing drums. Cool. Unfortunately, because it was like the first model ever. Those things got destroyed. Within a year. They stopped working, but and they're really expensive to replace. I found out and now I don't even know if they have it anymore. Probs. Not such a fun game.

Tali: 4:34

Well, to answer my own icebreaker question, I also played a lot of Guitar Hero. Well, I, I guess you said you didn't, your kids did. I played a lot of Guitar Hero in high school. Mm-hmm. I never made it past the first song. Never. No. But I came really, really close. Slow. Right. Bare meow. Even take it easy,

Cody: 4:57

even on the easy setting. Yeah. Why? I just got really flustered. Did you ever get to try to play the drums?

Tali: 5:05

No, this was well before rock band was a thing. Oh,

Cody: 5:08

okay. Yeah. He was a guitar hero. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Tali: 5:11

Yeah. I sucked real hard.

5:12

I

Cody: 5:12

think I played both. They're pretty fun.

Tali: 5:14

Any video game or anything like requiring a video game console, like just is not my strong suit. Never has been. Yeah, it's

Cody: 5:23

a foreign land. I was up on it during like the super N nes, like the Nintendo Entertainment System. Oh, okay. That was like the second or third generation and then that was it. Like I, I jumped off that train about then. So ever since then

Tali: 5:38

I was really big into CD rom games. I'm outta yeah. Those were cool. yeah. Oregon Trail, whoop

Cody: 5:45

Poop. I had a Top Gun game No Way. Or my Commodore 64. And the graphics engine was so like new at the time that it was basically a black screen and. You were like in a flight simulator situation, but it was all black screen until your enemy jet would come on the screen. And then it was like a white outline, drawing of a plane But because it was just a black sky, there was no like ground or trees or anything like that for reference. Sure. You could just be like going in loops and circles and everything, and it was just black screen and then all of a sudden you'd pass a P plane. It's like, oh, there is, and you'd have to like try to come back and shoot'em down. Sounds intense. And I didn't have a disc drive for that. Commodor 64. Okay. So I had to type in the program. line by line, the code. Where do you get those codes? So at the time there was this, if not the internet, there was two, yeah, there was two magazines back then. Oh my God. one was like Commodore Magazine and another one was like Amiga, which was like their super computer at the time. Their, their higher end computer from the same company. And they would actually have programs in there, games or even office programs and stuff. And they're literally the code in the magazine. And you'd have to copy it down and type it in to the computer.

Tali: 7:08

Would somebody read it off to

Cody: 7:09

you or you would just No, that was just me as a kid. Like memorizing a line, typing an in, and then if of course if you get one thing wrong, you get like a period outta place. The whole thing doesn't work. Right. And. It was kind of cool cuz I was learning programming, but the bad thing is because I didn't have a disc drive to save any of that work. If you turn the computer off, you lose it. Oh shit. So I'd have to do it every time. Yeah. Or just leave it on, like, don't touch my computer. You know, this

Tali: 7:36

is giving me dewey decimal system vibes. Yeah. Yikes.

Cody: 7:42

So yeah, I used to be a real technophile, real neophyte if you will, where I was like always into the new thing and the new technology. And now I don't know if I'm getting old or if it's just the time we live in, but I'm sometimes it's scary. What is technology? Oh, AI and just stuff

Tali: 8:03

in the world. Oh. I think that scares a lot of people for sure. Yeah. But it's amazing that, but it's weird even in your lifetime, like what a difference that is. Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. That's crazy honey. It's weird of the

Cody: 8:16

eighties. It's weird for me though, cuz I was so into it. I was so excited about the future and now that the future's here, I'm like, oh, this is kind of scary.

Tali: 8:23

Well, people like you should be careful what they wish for. Yep. Because some of us already knew it was gonna be scary. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think those of us who like grew up, I feel like kids who grew up, like my generation, like were pretty comfy already. You know, like I had internet growing up around, I don't know, fourth grade-ish and that, you know, it opened the door of what was possible, but you still dealt with like lots of flag times and dial up and things were just fucking slow. So like you still had patience. Mm-hmm. to some degree. And I think a lot of where that technology has led has. It's been pretty like consistent for a while, and now that I'm entering my thirties, it's just like, oh, there's all this shit that you don't even know about. Mm-hmm. chat, chat, chat. G p T. Yeah. And like, one of my clients is 15 years old and I forget that we're like 15 years apart. And the things that she's talking about, I like, don't know. It's just weird. It's a really strange feeling. I don't love it, but whatever. That's just, that's the life, that's just how it goes. Mm-hmm. for every generation, every person. Yep. I have another though. I have another icebreaker question for you. How comfortable are you in your new chair?

Cody: 9:45

It's okay. Just, okay. No, I like the chair, but I'm at an angle. I'd like to sit like this, but my mic boom isn't long enough. Can you?

Tali: 9:52

Oh. Mm-hmm. So why? Yeah, you're just leaning in. I'm cozy. We just got new. Our last one fell apart. And I say last one because we only had one good office chair that we would switch back and forth and then somebody would have the shitty chair over there, which is just like a regular wooden chair with a pillow on it.

Cody: 10:11

We are upgraded.

Tali: 10:12

Yes, we are. This whole area is quite snazzy. Yes. Do you wanna introduce today's

Cody: 10:18

topic? Well, we are winging it today. Winging it. So I'm not sure what the title of this episode's gonna be yet until the end and I will wrap it up with a good title by the time we finish this combo. So what are the guts? But the guts having a guide is not the same as blind obedience. So we've already done a couple of podcasts now on finding a good mentor slash

Tali: 10:39

coach. Yes. And the importance of it really. Yeah. Advocating

Cody: 10:42

for it. And then another podcast. the idea of teaching in order to learn, like become a teacher. And it helps you do, you know it's a new dimension of being a student is to pass on your knowledge to somebody else, and that was a really fun podcast.

Tali: 10:57

And we've also talked about self

Cody: 10:58

ownership. Yes. And so these all kind of mushed together, don't they? Yeah. So this is a, a bit of a callback to some of those topics, but hopefully a new nuanced yeah. Approach to some of these ideas. So the rest of the note that we have here is, for instance modifying your workout apart from what your coach tells you because you know your body better. And if you haven't had a coach before, maybe you can relate to this in terms of like a physician or something, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you get medical advice and it's like, well, you, you know your body better than anybody else and are, so are

Tali: 11:32

you sure you haven't had braces? Cody? You have, yeah.

Cody: 11:34

Then we say, keep thinking for yourself even if information is coming from a trusted source. Let alone a questionable one. So this obviously can be a broad topic. Totally. And I kind of wish, I kind of wish I had been able to do some research for this episode beforehand for what, because I have some very peripheral knowledge of some philosophy that I'd like to bring up, but I, it's, yeah. I'm not comfortable with it enough to bring it up and get deep into it in our conversation,

Tali: 12:05

but, well, I think you should bring it up anyway and we can explore the idea.

Cody: 12:08

Yeah. Well, and some of the ideas are kind of the basis of knowledge. Like how do you know something? Hmm. So there's terms like a priori which is the terminology. And like I said, it's kind of on the peripheral of Oh no. My memory cuz I used to be into this kind of thing. And then I've kind of like let it slip as far as getting into these terms. But the idea is that there's some knowledge that you can know before experiencing things and some that are only experiential. And Sir Francis Bacon is one of the philosophers that was kind of in this idea of how, how can you know something? Sure. And what can we know? Can we trust our senses? And it's interesting because there's, there's, there's logical arguments for both sides of you can only know something if you can sense it. Slash experience it. And then there's also an argument for the fact that you don't even know what your senses are telling you. Sure. Like we're kind of living a dream in a way. Well, and how limited

Tali: 13:15

are they?

Cody: 13:15

Yeah. So there's a very deep philosophical rabbit hole here. Yeah. This

13:18

feels

Tali: 13:18

really deep to just be kicking things off with Well, I'm not ready, I just wanted to bring it up

Cody: 13:23

cuz I, I can't go much deeper than that because like I said, I didn't get the chance to review fair the philosophers and who had these ideas. And I'm not first enough to just bring it up off the top of my head. But it is part of the concept of what we're talking about here though, is like, how do you make good decisions if you are being mentored or you have a teacher slash guide? You also have to use your own reason in order to make your own decisions. At the end of the day, you own your own decisions, even if somebody else is. Leading you in a way. And so that kind of brings us to the question of like, well, how do you, how do you discern?

Tali: 14:03

Yes. I love that word. That's one of my favorite words of all time. Really? Yes. But I pitched something to you and you didn't swing at it. I just think that story is so funny about you going to the dentist and this happening to you multiple times. Can you

Cody: 14:17

enlighten us? Yeah. Well, I have fairly straight teeth.

Tali: 14:23

Fairly, your teeth are perfect. So straight and, and so many of them. And so opaque.

Cody: 14:30

Yeah. Well, I have been to multiple dentists in my life who have in one particular, that just literally wanted to argue with me of whether or not I had had braces before. Basically calling me a fucking liar. I was

Tali: 14:45

getting brace. Or that You

Cody: 14:46

must have forgotten. Yeah. Oh, I forgot I had braces. No. You know, when did you have braces? I've never had braces. Are you sure? Yeah. I've never had braces. I'm like, I don't believe you. I'm like, you're literally calling me a liar. Like, shut up. I was so mad. The

Tali: 15:02

dentist already kind of ruffles

Cody: 15:04

your feathers. Yeah. I'm not a fan. Like I'm, if you're a dentist and you're listening to this, no, it's nothing personal. But my experiences have not been, I would say out of all the dentists I've been to, I've had like a single positive experience out of every time I've ever been to the dentist. Sorry. Yeah. Nobody likes to go to

Tali: 15:24

the dentist. When it comes to the dentist. I actually kind of give all that autonomy away. I'm willing to bow down to whatever they're telling me, because not only have they gone to school and they can, they can like physically see in my mouth in a way that I cannot. Yeah. You know? And I only see a dentist like twice a year. Mm-hmm. So everything that happens between those two appointments, like it's just crazy town like You know, it's important we talk all the time about how we don't really wanna take on clients who only see us once a week cuz it's not enough touchpoints to Yeah. Actually propel them in the direction that we are asking them to go. So I feel like I would benefit from more dentist appointments, perhaps my habits would probably be a lot better if I had that pressure or that person to answer to.

Cody: 16:12

Yeah. I have a bit of mistrust because it's also kind of part of the whole western corporatized medical industry though as well. You know one of our big beefs with the medical industry as a whole, it, besides the monopolization. How it's structured, but there's, if you can't prescribe a patented drug or cut somebody open, then physicians don't have a lot of options for you. You know, and sometimes they even seem, in my opinion, negligent in their advice that they give to patients because they ignore anything that's not a high profit cure or treatment for something. Yeah, I think at the detriment of their patients, like, I see this all the

Tali: 16:57

time. Well, you were just talking about that with some of your clients who Yeah. You know, who did not get some really easily accessible advice.

Cody: 17:06

Yeah. So I have, I can say this, I mean, I'm not gonna name names, but I have a client that I've worked with that has Parkinson's. and there are studies dating back 20 years that I was able to find in about a one minute Google search. I found five different studies, and like I said, one of them dated back to 2020, so it's over 20 years old. Or not 2020, sorry, 2000. And Lion's main mushrooms have shown promising results in assisting with Parkinson's, dementia, just aging brains in general. Lion's, main mushrooms can help regrow neurons and help regrow the myelin sheath that protects nerves. And so any degenerative disease that attacks those structures it seems obvious that Lions Main might be beneficial and. Somebody who has had Parkinson's for 30 years and is constantly getting treatment and on drugs and like always, you know, they have these specialized physicians and yet the subject has never come up until they go to their personal trainer and I bring it up and they're like, wow. And they start looking at all these studies and immediately buy some mushrooms. And it just pisses me off that there's very well established studies and evidence that this could be beneficial. Notice I'm saying is it could be beneficial. I'm not saying it's a cure, but it's also not gonna hurt anybody. Yeah. Like taking mushrooms is not going to interact with your drugs in any negative way or anything like this. As far as lions may, don't sue me. This is not medical advice. this is my disclaimer. So if you're listening, you know, check with your physician, but they'll tell you that they don't know. And that's what pisses me off. It's like if you're a specialist in a disease and you can't keep up on a study that's 20 years old, just to even mention it, that's a resource that could cost your, your patient$20 a month. I mean, come on. That's, to me, that's negligent.

Tali: 19:09

Well, sure. I think there are a lot of different things that are coming up for me just hearing that particular story. One, continuing education. Think about how often you had opportunities for continuing education as a coach. Mm-hmm. with running a gym. When do you have time for that?

Cody: 19:29

You know, I'd like to think that I stayed on it. I mean, it may not have been structured continuing education, but I was constantly seeking on my own.

Tali: 19:38

I guess I just mean to say like, once your job kicks off mm-hmm. and you're serving all of these clients or all of these patients, you know, you can carry a lot of the knowledge that you already have forward and it's gonna benefit a lot of people. Mm-hmm. is it going to cover all the ground? Probably not. You're gonna have a lot of blind spots. Oh yeah. Especially the more time that goes on and more studies that are done and come out and are published and Yeah. I think that's a huge order. That's a tall order. Big

Cody: 20:07

demand. I agree with that, but, but I'm gonna push back a little bit because it's not just having difficulty keeping up. It's a. An ignorance of anything that isn't a prescription drug. Sure. Well, there's also, that's what I'm

Tali: 20:24

talking about. So the next thing I was gonna bring up are values, right? Yeah. Like in terms of what your, what you're thinking about your job as a mentor is, is it to make as much money as possible? Is it to serve as many people as possible? Is it to be giving the most beneficial, less invasive, maybe more proactive approaches possible? There are a lot of different types of physicians out there. There are a lot of different types of dentists out there, different types of coaches. Mm-hmm. And this actually came up recently too because my sister, she's been wanting to work with a trainer for a while in person because she's just not like finding her groove or pushing herself enough training on her own. And, you know, she's got like wonky joints and can't. Can't rely on training methods that she's done in the past because she's kind of strained herself too far. Mm-hmm. in those realms. And so she wants to, to investigate some other forms of exercise. And so she told me that she went to the gym near her house and met with the personal trainer and I just said, you know, make sure you ask how they, if they have any other clients who have injuries or hyper flexibility like you have, you know, you have to screen your mentors in the same way that we screen clients mm-hmm. In terms of if it's gonna be a good fit. Cuz it made me think of our other client who has had a shoulder issue ever since she went to a personal trainer. Mm-hmm. You know, with some like new young fit kid who like really didn't actually have a lot of coaching experience and pushed her too far. Mm-hmm. And that's definitely something that you had mentioned kind of in this little blurb of. This conversation that we were gonna have today about knowing your body better. And I think a lot of that has to be your discernment upfront, seeing if you mesh well with your practitioner, whatever, in whatever realm. You know. We also have this experience with a coach in the county that we went to go work with, and we noted right off the bat that they were really rigid about their practices. Mm-hmm. and weren't really open to like, new information or. answering questions. And for us, that was a really big red flag. Noticing that rigidity. It just, there's a staleness to that practitioner. I think. If you, if you get those feelings right away, I don't think that's gonna be a good fit for you. Yeah. And like I said with the dentist, I don't really need to see like a progressive dentist. I just need someone to clean my teeth and keep them in my head. Well, I guess that's what

Cody: 23:03

I come back to though, is that it's part of that whole western medicine culture where it's like there's a certain box that they work within and that's it. And so, you know, it wasn't long ago when they were using metal feeling fillings to, to plug up holes in your teeth. Mm-hmm. that were poisoning people, you know? Yeah. I have metal fillings, like it wasn't, I'm not talking about a hundred years ago, I'm talking about a couple decades ago. Yeah. And so me, you know, I still hold a healthy bit of skepticism for the The methodologies, the rigidness, the, yeah.

Tali: 23:40

Well, you probably have to pay more if you want the kind of practitioner that you want, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's also just part of looking for mentorship. Like, you're gonna get what you pay for often. And it's, it's tricky because we're wanting to do so much in our lives, and we are of an era where like everything is subscription based. Everything is like a monthly bill now. Mm-hmm. And so I think when we're wanting to have the Netflix and a car payment and you know, a personal trainer, like we have to be able to afford it all somehow. And so it's easy to wanna cut corners in some areas. And it's possible that if you're trying to cut corners with coaching, that that's what you're gonna get, you know? And. I think a lot of it is just being okay with testing things out and seeing how it goes. Mm-hmm. we don't really build that into our model, which maybe we should consider like kind of a trial run. We, we offer packages like for eight, 12 week packages and they get to choose mm-hmm. they obviously get a price cut the larger the package, but it does set them up for opportunity to try it on mm-hmm. and then move on. Mm-hmm. if they want. And I think that's important to go into any new endeavor. Any new relationship with a practitioner is like, I'm gonna give this a try, see how it goes. Because there's a pendulum swing. Mm-hmm. between having mentorship that's like all like very authoritarian and then not having any at all, you know. and I don't think that everybody necessarily wants the same things out of that relationship. And so making sure that you find the right fit is super crucial. And I know we've talked about that before.

Cody: 25:32

Yeah. Well, getting what you pay for really comes, I've seen the stark difference in the types of informational products that I've gotten online. I've been working with business ideas and trying to do location independent income sources since the internet was invented. You know, I've been always looking for different ways to grow and different business models to experiment with. And we are in an era right now where you can take unlimited free courses. I mean, you could sign up for five a day if you wanted. Mm-hmm. because there's so many free courses out there. And I will say, after having. Coughed up the money for some more expensive learning opportunities that it's a vast difference between knowledge that you pay for and knowledge that is just sort of out there on the internet. Okay. There's a depth that's different and there's a consolidation that's different. There's lots of free information. You could, you know, get, I'm sure that you could get the equivalent of a master's degree just through watching YouTube videos, but it would probably take you 20 years to do it. Mm-hmm. because it's just a rabbit hole after a rabbit hole of distraction and the information's not organized well and it's, it's out there and it's everywhere. And you have to dig and discern and, and try to figure it out. Yes. Whereas if you pay for an organized mentor who's it's already done for you. Yeah. For you. Yeah. It's just like, don't, don't get distracted by that shiny object. Just look at this and That's gonna be your organized approach to learning that is worth the money. Even if you can get the same information for free, it's worth having it fed to you in an appropriate way. Mm-hmm. that's gonna make everything a lot more efficient.

Tali: 27:27

We also watched this YouTube series that was really cool. I believe Weight Life, weightlifting House, put it on, we can put a link to it. Mm-hmm. And it's called the Final Attempt and it's following several different female weightlifters kind of fighting for Olympic spots and what that process is like. And, you know, weightlifting doesn't get a lot of air time and so it's really fun to hear interviews with these athletes who, you know, I follow them all online, every single one of'em. And you know, we're all making TikTok videos and reels and stuff, so you don't really get to hear them talk for more than 30 seconds. Mm-hmm. So I was really intrigued to listen to this and. One of the first things that really struck me was a coach who was talking about one of their athletes who was transitioning from a junior lifter to a senior lifter and being like, well, this is now an autonomous adult and I really have to train her differently now. She has also been in the sport a long time, so she knows it in and out. You know, the, a coach has a really interesting role when it comes to an athlete who's seasoned. They don't have to teach them how to do things anymore. Wasn't

Cody: 28:38

that a refreshing thing to hear?

Tali: 28:40

It was. It's like the first time I've ever freaking heard it. But yeah, what he was saying is that oh gosh, I'm gonna, I forget, I forget his name already, but he's the coach of power and grace performance, I believe is the, the name of the team. link to them too. Anyway and he's talking about Jordan De Cruz who's an incredible, teeny tiny powerhouse of a lifter. And he was talking about how their work together is really collaborative. Mm-hmm. And that just makes me think of that note that you have in there about knowing your body better. Where, you know, if you're working with somebody who can articulate and has awareness and sensitivity and experience with their body to a degree where they can give you a coach as a coach, really important information that you can use mm-hmm. You better take it. You know, I think about that a lot with nutrition coaching too, because when I'm getting check-ins with clients, I'm trying to gauge their stress levels, their sleep, their mood, their you know, feelings of accomplishment and confidence. The more information I get, the better coach I can be. Mm-hmm. And there's this weird thing that happens in coaching a lot where like we're just spewing stuff Yeah. At a wall. And maybe that's a group fitness thing. Mm-hmm. or something maybe that's more appropriate for group fitness. Cuz we've talked about, you know, in our own endeavors, how we don't really wanna be hurting groups of 30 people.

Cody: 30:10

Well I did, you know, we covered this a little bit on the first leadership episode that we did where we drew some lines between the difference, the difference between a coach slash mentor and a teacher. Like sometimes we have teaching roles where we're at the front of a class and we're teaching a concept and that's a valid concept. You know, we can show you don't want this to break down while you're doing a deadlift, you know, you want to maintain this neutral lumbar, et cetera. Those are valid concepts for everybody in the room. But that's not coaching, that's teaching. You're teaching a concept to the group, but coaching is when you go up to the individual and you see like, oh, you have really long femurs. Maybe you should take a sumo stance today because I'm not seeing a great position when you have to reach all the way down and grab the bar with your levers and your experience or whatever. Let's try this different stance and you're correcting that individual that's coaching, but, but that was a collaborative thing because you got feedback from them in Sure. In that case it was from their body.

Tali: 31:16

But still at the same time, you know, when I work with clients who, you know, you're teaching the the snatch and the clean and jerk and it's easy for them to kind of like, Mix objectives of each one. Cuz you know, the terminology is so silly. Mm-hmm. that it doesn't stick in people's minds. Mm-hmm. easily enough. It's like its own language. It is. Yeah. And they don't like, sound like what they are like when I Yeah. Usually when I bring up that my favorite lift is the snatch. Everyone like chuckles cuz it's you know, a dirty word. I love sketches too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you know what I mean? Anyway referring to the lift, the Olympic lift, the snatch you know, it's easy for people to be like, where my hands should be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of times my response is, where do you feel the strongest? Because yes, you. your hands to be in relation to your shoulders in a certain position. Mm-hmm. or to your knees or whatever. However, there's not like a particular measurement that's gonna work for everybody. Oh right. Yeah, sure. You also have to kind of try things on to kind of see, you know, I can see pretty well in an athlete like, oh, they're looking really compressed, or you know, too far forward. Let's open it up and adjust their positioning or whatever by sliding their hands out on the bar. But I think it's also really important to like instill that agency within them. We've talked about how we wanna do that in our group settings. We kind of want to teach people how to coach we want, cuz we wanna be able to participate with them. Mm-hmm. we don't really wanna be in the front of

Cody: 32:49

the class. We wanna teach an objective of what the workout is supposed to accomplish. Yes. And then help people strategize how to get there. Yeah,

Tali: 32:56

totally. That is so different from anything that has ever been modeled for me in, in a professional coaching setting. And what's so cool about having your own gym and having your own business is you can do whatever you want And it feels really good because I've been on the other end where I feel like my job is just to do whatever coach says. And yes, there's something that I liked about that, you know, the closer that I can, like people please. Mm-hmm. the better an athlete I was but it also drove me crazy. It made me feel like I wasn't in control of my life. Mm-hmm. especially when I was getting so much to it of it to the sport. So well, it's, it's really a question of empowering other people. Yeah. You know, at the dentist you probably did not feel very empowered.

Cody: 33:51

No. And one of the things that. Helps with trust or in the discernment of what you should be listening to, following orders for or whatnot, is I think two things. One is collaborative. What you were just talking about is your mentor collaborating with you and taking feedback from you and asking you questions. That helps me trust the mentor more because I feel like they are actually listening to me and giving me advice based on my situation. Not just some generic thing that they are stuck in the mud, like this is the way it's done. The second thing is their ability to justify with the teaching, and this has been something that's always been a favorite thing for me to do, and I think sometimes clients even like roll their eyes. Like I don't, I don't need to know why. Just tell me what to do. That's true. Not everybody wants it. Yeah. But for me it's important to be able to back up what I'm teaching with a reason. you know, I'm not having you do this exercise because it sucks. I'm having you do it because it's going to be an important function for you to be able to get up off the floor when you're 80. Yeah. And I can promise you, if you can do 50 burpees for time when you're 70, you're much more likely to be able to get off the floor at 80. Right? Yeah. Like there's some justification there. Or I can get a lot more technical than that. But my point is that I have a reason for what I'm teaching. And if somebody asks me at any given moment in my coaching, why are we doing this? I can come up with a reason and if not, I shouldn't be teaching it. Like why we're not here to just like make you sweat or make you suffer or whatever. There's some reasoning to back it up. So those two things really to me as a student, that helps me trust the information more. Hmm. If they can justify why they're teaching me something. You know what the point is, what's the underlying principle? And second, if they're asking me questions and I'm part of the decision making process, or at least they can fool me into thinking that I am Sure. And this is a part of the reason why I guess the dentist experience hasn't been great for me either because a lot of times it's just a lot of condescending remarks and, you know, I, I will bring something up like, well this is really strange cuz this started like two weeks ago. It was like a light switch, it just came on. And they're like, oh no, no, no. It's not caused by anything else except this. It's just a buildup of that. And it's like there's no possibility that it could be anything else.

Tali: 36:26

You know what though, in coaching it's so, like communication is such a big part of it. Maybe dentistry doesn't

Cody: 36:32

they needed some communication classes. Maybe.

Tali: 36:34

Like, maybe that's not something that. Brought up as important. Like Sure. There's like bedside manner. Yeah. I guess I don't even know if that comes up in dentistry, but it does in other healthcare positions. But yeah, I don't know. I wonder if that's a part of their curriculum. I wouldn't know. We would have to ask him if she could enlighten us on that. Yeah. Sorry, I keep putting this on cuz I really want our logo to be available. I just need to change my settings. So why don't you go ahead and

Cody: 37:07

Carry the conversation by myself. Mm-hmm. you want me to break the, the third wall and talk to our audience? You mean the fourth wall? Whatever, break this wall. Well I'm not meaning to just shit on dentists. I'm not, I wasn't intending on that.

Tali: 37:19

He's had a really hard You've had a really hard week. Yeah, I have. With your oral health.

Cody: 37:25

Yeah. Yeah. I've been in pain for a couple weeks now and has not been great. Experience. But it's just a, an example of some of what we're talking about. So how do you discern, you know, other than the two things that I've brought up as far as feeling like there's conversation and collaboration and then also being able to justify the house. And whys what else do you think is needed for a student to be able to discern whether they should take a lesson from their mentor or not? Cuz sometimes it's appropriate to reject something that your teacher is saying.

Tali: 38:05

Well, something that hasn't come up yet that has always been really valuable to me is when somebody doesn't know something and they tell you that they don't know and they're taking the opportunity to be really honest and humble about it. You gain trust, mad respect. Yeah, absolutely. And. I can't think of a single coach that has ever said that to me. like you said, sometimes they just, there's kind of like a trickery involvement to like sound smart or sound superior or whatever. Like you feel pressure to give a reason mm-hmm. but to say like, you know, intuitively that makes sense to me, or, you know, I don't actually know. We should look into that. Mm-hmm. I think that would go a long way for me. And I, like I said, I don't really have like, concrete examples of what that would be but I think I've mentioned in another episode that, you know, my mom, she is very poised and always delivers full packages of information. You never really see her kind of like in the throes of her challenges. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she's been showing that more in my adulthood. A conscious effort on her part, and I've made sure to really positively reinforce that because there's something about seeing her working through stuff and trying to figure things out and sharing it. That makes me trust her more. There's something about having everything kind of pre-packaged and given to you on a silver platter with a bow on it that feels mistrusting sometimes because you're not able to see the points of connection. Mm-hmm. you're only seeing their point of view when they're able to look back, which, you know, hindsight's 2020. Mm-hmm. And so I think it's been really valuable in the past to watch my coaches working out, or I've had clients who come to my weightlifting meets, you know, they're seeing you at work. And you know, we've always worked in gyms where you weren't allowed to train with your clients, like alongside a class. Mm-hmm. like, you know, even in those bigger classes where we'd have like two coaches running it I think there's something super valuable. Like even in personal training, like when I've worked with one of my consistent clients right now, in the early days, like, you know, with weightlifting it's so hard to teach it in a vacuum. It's so much easier to have groups of people so you can watch and learn mm-hmm. and, you know, for a while we were putting on YouTube videos and things so we could just kind of like watch weightlifting between sets and kind of talk about stuff. And then our power went out and I've never set the TV up again. But in those first few weeks, like I would take attempts so not only she could get rest, but she could observe mm-hmm. I needed to give her opportunities to observe. Mm-hmm. And I think there's something about opening up that process and showing people that and having vulnerability yourself. I think that's gonna go a long way. And this is definitely a newer kind of coaching that we've been doing. And I don't know if it's because it's in the comfort of our own home or because it's not like my main source of income that I don't feel like it has to be performative. Mm-hmm. something feels different, but I think a lot of it also has to be having been kind of burned by feeling like I was being told what to do all the time. Overly structured. Yeah. And I don't, I want, I want weightlifting and I want weight loss and I want all that to be a fun experience for people. Mm-hmm. And I also want people to feel like they can do it on their own if they have to want to, whatever. You know, I don't want people to be dependent on me. Mm-hmm. forever. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna be dependent on anyone forever. And I still think that all of the, you know, all these pursuits like really benefit from having a watchful eye and someone who can course correct and see the bigger picture when you can't, like all of those roles as a mentor are so important, but you gotta give people power too. Mm-hmm. you know, I'm trying to teach one of my clients right now to choose her own jumps in weight. I'll give her like how I want it to feel. Like, on a scale of one to 10, you know, we've practiced with, do you wanna take a big bite, little bite, whatever. And, you know, if a weight took her for a doozy, like how did that feel? Do you think you could do that again? Or do you wanna go up, like, just trying to pose questions. Mm-hmm. you know, your birthday was this weekend and I asked you about wisdom that you took from this year, and you mentioned asking the right questions. Mm-hmm. and I think. That's a huge part of mentorship too. You gotta ask questions. You are not an all-knowing being. And we've talked about how coaching you can be in a position to coach if you're several steps ahead of whoever you're coaching. And you can, you can work with that, but like, don't get ahead of yourself of like where you're at. You know? And that's why I feel like anytime I get a whiff of arrogance from coaching, I'm done. Mm-hmm. I'm out.

Cody: 43:23

I guess that's another, a separate takeaway. You mentioned empowerment, and I think that that's a good clue to be able to build trust in what you're learning is if your coach seems to be setting you up for putting themselves out of work. You know, if, if your mentor is aiming you in a direction that is going to surpass them or. to make you less dependent on them, then that seems like more trustful, trustworthy information rather than, we'll just stick with me kid and we'll go far. You know, like kind of an attitude of dependency like you were saying, and or just pushback too. Yeah. Well, I think the empowerment thing is its own thing though. I mean, I think it's worth really emphasizing that point. You brought it up and I think it's a great point that if you're leader, teacher, mentor, coach, whatever, is empowering you to be able to make decisions on your own and maybe even go off on your own and not work with them one day, then that seems like more trustworthy information. Dependency.

Tali: 44:39

Yes. I mean, it's like in relationships, right? Mm-hmm. if you feel someone being dependent on you or clinging too hard or whatever, that naturally creates a desire from whoever's experiencing that to push them the hell away. Like they're just dynamics and energy, I think that we have to take into account here in terms of like, what's gonna be safe, what's gonna inspire longevity all the things that we want for our athletes as coaches. And we can't, we can't ask them to be like an obedient client because, you know, we're taking power away from them if that's the position we put them in. Mm. It's almost the exact opposite objective. And so it really comes off confu. It's a very confusing thing to me that it's kind of common that coach has kind of take an authoritative role. Yeah. You know, that first time I ever went to CrossFit I was like, I'm never going back again. Cuz that coach was so scary. Yeah.

Cody: 45:48

Yeah. Well I think there's an impression, and I think this is taught often too, I keep thinking of the medical field for instance. Like, if your doctor seems unsure, then that makes you scared. Let's get, you're supposed to have all the answers, you know, I'm paying you to have all the answers kind of thing. But I think that can really backfire when people are not allowed to say, I don't know, or, Or they come at something with such arrogance that makes you feel like you are not privy or capable of understanding. Totally. And that's certain information. I feel like gatekeepers, you know?

Tali: 46:24

Yes. I would say that that's like every adolescents experience with their parents. Don't you think? Like if you're constantly being told no, yeah. You shouldn't be doing this. You can't be doing this. Whatever reminds me, it's like, give me some breathing room. You know? Yeah. Like, trust me. Mm-hmm. And that feeling of mistrust is like what creates the pushback? It's what creates the rebellion. It's what creates the anger towards your parents, I think. Mm-hmm. I would definitely say that's the case for me. Oh yeah. If there's such a strong hold or like such a tight grip Yeah. I'm gonna do everything I can to loosen it. Oh yeah.

Cody: 46:54

I think the cliche. Teenage rebellion thing is you know, obviously there's some rights of passage that seem to be historically consistent, no matter how far back we look in history. I think you took all the coffee, but in in modern times, I think the reason why there's this cliche of the rebellious teenager is because of a lot of the structures that are in place in how we raise our kids. Like here you have this person who is say 16 quote unquote old enough to drive a vehicle, which can kill somebody. Like it's a big responsibility, but they can't determine their own bedtime or something like that. It's c come on. Like, it's ridiculous. The, you're not

Tali: 47:36

even giving them the chance to learn the lesson that if you go to sleep really fucking late and you have to go to school next day. Yeah, yeah. And that's a potent lesson. It really is. Yeah.

Cody: 47:46

But we have this weird culture of, you know, Supposedly good parenting being this micromanaged thing. And then there's this cliche of the rebellious teenager, it's like, well, why do you think they're rebellious? It's because you're an over controlling prick and you're not, you're not allowing that person, hello, human being to have the autonomy that they obviously have. They have a brain, they have the ability to, may not be fully formed, but still they have the ability to reason and make decisions for themselves that you're not allowing them to make. Well, that's, and then you wonder why they rebel. Well,

Tali: 48:20

that's been the story in your household, and I know that you've exercised less hands-on approaches with your kids. Mm-hmm. But I would imagine like so much of that hands-on approach or that tight grip is out of fear, right? Yeah. I'm sure you're, that's your human. You made them, your job is to protect them, and you're terrified that if you don't have a stronghold, something bad's gonna happen to them, but, That's your own issue. Yeah. That's not your kids' fault. Yeah. You know, that's definitely what's pushed on living in society. Society too. Living. Living. Yeah. Well, like living through fear is like a, it's something to look at in and of itself. Yeah.

Cody: 48:55

Well, we live in definitely this feature where clickbait now, but it used to be headlines back in the day. Like there's no difference between the news of the fifties headlines and the clickbait of today, except that it's just ramped up in volume. But fear sells, you know, fear sells newspapers, fear sells, clicks now online. And so we live in this world that's painted to be this scary ass place. And it's, most people are pretty good, you know, generally speaking, we're all gonna make it. Okay. You know, I think the last time I looked up the statistic was probably 10 years ago. So I don't know how up to date this is.

Tali: 49:36

Well, we've talked about how much technology has changed in 10 years,

Cody: 49:40

but in, in regards to the cause of death of people. Mm-hmm. you have a 92% chance of dying of something that's age related. Now that might be heart disease, cancer you know, the big killers, the diabetes, that kind of thing, Alzheimer's, whatever. But an age related illness, if you take all illnesses and age related things, frailty and things out of it, you only have about an 8% chance of dying from like a car wreck or a murder. And that includes suicide too. Like all the things out there that are so scary that we have to protect everybody. it's really not that prevalent. You've got about an 8% chance of dying prematurely, so to speak. Mm-hmm. and but we're, that's not what the impression that you would get from like watching the news or reading headlines or scrolling through social media. The world is like the scary place full of kidnappers and, and, and child traffickers and terrorists and oh my god, you know, it's like this. Well,

Tali: 50:39

it's not to say it doesn't, doesn't exist. And it's just like in training, like, doesn't mean an injury doesn't exist, it totally does. But in the same way that authoritative coaches really, I think, do more harm for athletes in the way that they cannot, you know, speak up if they're feeling off or. An injury coming on, or whatever it is. It's the same thing for overprotective parents. Like, you're not letting your kids learn the lessons that are gonna make them strong. Yeah. Or they're gonna allow them to speak up or, you know, advocate for themselves. Like, we're, we're really shutting that down.

Cody: 51:21

Oh yeah. Back in the early days of blogging, when blog, it wasn't even called blogging, it was just like online forums and stuff. There's this really cool article, and it's been redone many times, I think, by other people. But it was something to the effect of like 10 dangerous things that your children should be able to do. And it was like, ooh, playing with fire, playing with knives, you know, jumping off something or whatever. It was like things that you should let your kids do. Ah, supervised. Supervised. That's the point is like, okay, playing with fire is dangerous. Therefore you should teach your children how to be safe. Like you do not play with fire like in the house, you know, lighten your bedroom on fire or something by playing with matches. Here's, here's what it means. You know, maybe they even get burned trying to strike a match for the first time. And then they understand, oh, you know, this is, this is harmful, this is gonna hurt. The proper ways to handle a gun, a knife, these kind of things. Instead of insulating your children and saying, the world is a dangerous place. Don't do anything, don't touch it. Which doesn't teach them anything. All it does is make them curious. and then they have no tools or scared. Yeah. Fearful or curious. And then they have no tools to deal with it as they get older. It's sort of like the abstinence thing, you know? Mm-hmm. you're 17 years old and I know that you can't think of anything but sex, but don't have it All right. It's like, well, Or we could teach some responsible behavior around it.

Tali: 52:55

I really hope that that has changed. Yeah. I think that not, I don't necessarily think it's like a school's job to do that. No. At all. Yeah. I'm really hoping that parents are having those conversations with kids. Yeah. Mine didn't. Yeah. Everything I learned about sex was like through friends or my sister mm-hmm. who was five years older than I was. Yeah. Or

Cody: 53:17

school. I think that's pretty typical. Yeah. So, any other takeaways from being able to discern things? We've come at this conversation a bit as coaches cuz that's who we are. But I've tried to. Put myself in the student position. Like how do you discern when to follow somebody and when not, obviously. I mean, there's some things that we didn't bring up or maybe you touched on for a moment as far as values. You know, obviously if your coach, mentor teacher is asking you to violate your own personal value system, that's obviously a, a line that can be drawn as far as when to follow them and when not. But when it comes to discerning, you know, if you're, if you're paying somebody or you're actively following somebody because you trust their judgment or want to learn from them, how do you know that what you're learning is the right thing or the appropriate thing? Yeah.

Tali: 54:16

I think another element would be if you're feeling heard, seen and heard. Mm. If you have concerns and you're bringing them up, obviously if you have concerns, you absolutely have to voice them. Do not hold them, you know, to yourself and then just expect people to know Yeah, there's some self, that's some things going on with you. Some

Cody: 54:34

ownership there. There's some responsibility

Tali: 54:36

on this Absolutely. Student's part. Yeah. To bring themself. People can't know what they don't know. Absolutely. So tell

Cody: 54:40

them. Yeah. I've had clients that were like, yeah, my shoulder's been hurting for a month, so maybe I shouldn't do this. Why didn't you tell me that five sessions ago? Yeah. Yeah,

Tali: 54:49

yeah, yeah. I mean, that also goes hand in hand with asking the right questions as a coach, but thinking about the student side yeah. I feel like if I am having concerns and bringing them up, even if they can't solve them, if I feel blown off, yeah. Then I have no reason to move forward with you because we've entered an agreement of some sort that. needs to be honored. Yeah. It's a relationship. It goes both ways. So I would say that that's something to think about too.

Cody: 55:18

Mm-hmm. I think a very valuable concept that I feel we could all benefit from in society as a whole is separating ideas from personalities.

Tali: 55:30

Okay. You know, what do you mean by that?

Cody: 55:32

Well, in one instance, you know, I've talked about, I've mentioned before, that you should never meet your heroes. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're then you find out they're just real people who are flawed, and then all of a sudden that hero kind of like, takes a dive in your mind. But at the same time, it, it's a very valuable lesson to learn that we're all human. So you can actually find, for instance historical quotes. by famous politicians that are like great quotes, but I'm like, yeah, but, but he was a politician, so you know that he probably didn't write it. probably 70% of the stuff he said was a fucking lie. And like he probably or a speech writer wrote it. Yeah. But yeah, my distrust of anybody with a government position is probably, you know, in a higher up position. A government a politician, I should say, is not a source of trust and it's a cliche, it's not just my opinion. This has been a cliche for hundreds of years that anybody in politics is probably not very trustworthy.

Tali: 56:37

No, Tucker said so too. What was his first

Cody: 56:40

name? Oh I forget. Mm, I

Tali: 56:44

forget. Rhymes with

Cody: 56:45

Justin. I was thinking of here look this up. I was thinking of Roy Rogers and, okay. It's like, I think he's the one that said like, how do you know when a politician's lying? Well, his lips are moving, you know it's a cliche, so I'm not alone in this thought. But that doesn't mean that some historical quote that has value on it, it should be dismissed just because it was said by some politician you don't like. I guess it, that's the point I'm trying to get to is that you have to discern wisdom and truth and valuable information apart from the personality, the person who said it. Okay. So ideas are more powerful in a way than the person who came up with the idea. Sure. And I think that keeping that in mind as you enter into a relationship with a coach, teacher, mentor, is to separate the information from the person. because that helps to eliminate the possibility, for instance of like wild, wild country or whatever, where you get into some cult of somebody who's like, well, they have lots of good ideas. And so then all of a sudden the ideas turn into basically worship of the guru. And yes, that's when things start to kind of go to shit is when you just take everything that person said as being the truth, the way the light. Because

Tali: 58:13

separate from their actions.

Cody: 58:14

Yes. Or even just because they have a history of saying things that you agreed with initially and then you go down this rabbit hole of of giving up your autonomy and your way of thinking in lieu of just whatever they tell you as being the truth. Mm-hmm. So I think this can go both ways. You. Take wisdom from somebody that you may find reprehensible, either on an ethics level or maybe you don't find them particularly intelligent or whatever, but they said something and it's valuable, and you can take that piece of value and you can separate it from the person. Likewise, you can take somebody that you respect tremendously and say, I, I still have to be discerning about what they're talking about. Absolutely. And I find myself in this position with certain authors and public speakers that I admire, but it's like we, except for that two or three things that he keeps ranting on, I don't agree with him on that. You know, and that doesn't mean that I have to say that I dislike Jordan Peterson or something. It's like, well, I disagree with that, that that one thing he's saying, that doesn't mean he's an a-hole. You know, like, well, I think that's why asserting your autonomy as a client, a patient, whatever, is so important because. you're just kind of reminding them like, yes, I am paying attention. Mm-hmm. yes, I am going to be discerning. I'm not gonna just take everything that you throw at me and you know, yeah. Do exactly what you want with it. Well, I think that's the bottom line takeaway that I would hope from this whole conversation that people could understand is or is, is a skill, and it's something to practice constantly, is being discerning of the things that you learn. Yes. Regardless of the source. Like the source doesn't even matter really. and that's kind of something that I, it's an easy trap to fall into is you like somebody so you all of a sudden you trust them. And this is why celebrities have endorsements. You know, they have celebrity endorsements because people think that they know the celebrity because they like their personality during interviews and they love the roles that they play on television and whatnot. So all of a sudden they're listening to that person in with like medical advice or something. It's like, well, he plays a doctor on tv. It doesn't mean he is one Not, not the same. And so we've obviously, this isn't something I'm just making up ob, people fall into this trap. Oh yeah. Hero worship or demonization goes both ways. So and so is an asshole, therefore everything he says is crap or so-and-so is a saint. And therefore everything he says is gospel. And neither one of those statements are true. We. to remember that everything that we are willing to take in is our responsibility for taking it in.

Tali: 1:00:54

Yes, I agree. Yeah. So I brought up what I was referring to before Preston Tucker was the name that I was thinking of. The, the card designer. Mm-hmm. He had said something to his kid who was played by Christian Slater in the movie that we had just seen over the weekend. Tucker, the man in his dream, and he said something like, all I ask is that you don't become a politician or a something. What was it? Lawyer or a lawyer? or a lawyer and something. And he's like, politicians tend to be both. Yeah. What was it? I don't know why can't even, it was a fast line. Yeah.

Cody: 1:01:33

But he said it was funny though, I thought he wanted me to be president and he was like, why would I want you to

Tali: 1:01:36

be president? Oh, that's what it was. Yeah. He was like, they're usu they're politicians and, and lawyers. Yeah. I want you to be either one of them. Yeah. That's funny. Great movie. We'll link to that too. Sure. I enjoyed that.

Cody: 1:01:47

Yeah. Feel like wrapping up? Sure. Feel like keeping going? Nah, Okay. I'm not even sure what to tease for next week, but No it was fun. It was all right. I love you. I love you too. See you in a week. See you in a week.

Tali: 1:02:09

This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.