028 Essentialism, The 80/20 Rule, And The Opportunity Costs Of Being The Best: Ep. 18 of The Philosophy Of Fitness

Tali and Cody discuss ways to be more effective (hint: it doesn't include doing more, in fact, it might even mean doing less!)

00:00 Intro

00:55 Icebreaker

06:30 Today's Topic: Essentialism, Pareto's Law, and Opportunity Costs

09:09 Want an incredibly effective productivity tool? Try timing your tasks and rests. Sounds so simple that it might be easy to ignore but it can be a game changer. TrainHeroic. Read more about these strategies in my book: STOP SETTING GOALS!

15:45 The 80/20 Rule: Pareto's Law: how it can be used for improving effectiveness, but also in recognizing the opportunity costs associated with 100% efforts as well as the relationship between this 80/20 rule and the Law Of Diminishing Returns.

22:34 How do you identify with your skills? 

28:50 Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown, you can check out his podcast here.

30:12 You can hear the interview where Tom Morello talks about his teaching style here.

35:36 How good do you REALLY want to be? ("The Best" has a price you might not want to pay.)

55:07 Re-assessment is critical to essentialism because we will never be static. Recognize that and develop a sense of wonder for your life.

01:10:41 Want to join us in our reading of Essentialism? Grab your copy here, then sign up to discuss it with us here.

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Transcript

 Ep 18 Essentialism 80-20 Opportunity Costs

Ep 18 Essentialism 80-20 Opportunity Costs

[00:00:00] Cody: Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh. 

[00:00:17] Tali: And I'm Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness podcast

[00:00:22] Cody: on the Lyceum Network.

[00:00:44] Tali: Okay, so it's the spooky season, and our icebreaker today is going to be what was the best spooky movie you saw recently and 

[00:00:53] Cody: why? You're giving away our timeline because I know our publishing is so far behind our [00:01:00] actual recording. Mm-hmm. people are gonna be onto us now. That's okay. Okay. Spooky. Wait, what was the question?

[00:01:08] Cody: You were 

[00:01:08] Tali: so caught up with the timeline that you didn't even hear it. Best spooky movie you've seen as of late, and why, why are you giving 

[00:01:17] Cody: me that look? Because we hadn't, we don't watch that many, but we did watch The Sixth Sense again. Mm-hmm. , and you and I, well, 

[00:01:23] Tali: not again. We'd never seen it 

[00:01:25] Cody: together.

[00:01:25] Cody: Right. But you had we had each seen it long ago when it was new. 

[00:01:29] Tali: Long ago. Yeah. Yes. Like in the nineties. Yeah. Long ago when 

[00:01:33] Cody: it was new and yeah. It holds up really well. It's a great movie and that kid is such 

[00:01:38] Tali: a great actor. Yeah. Shockingly. Yeah. So, 

[00:01:41] Cody: yeah. Even knowing how it ends and everything, I think it's worth rewatching because it's kind of fun to know the twist and then.

[00:01:51] Cody: You can observe things as you're watching it of like, oh yeah. Like could have seen that coming all along. Well, and 

[00:01:56] Tali: don't give it away. Cause I'm sure somebody out there hasn't seen [00:02:00] it or hasn't seen the little clip. Yeah. I 

[00:02:02] Cody: think or something. There's a, I think there's a statue of statute of limitations on spoiler alerts.

[00:02:08] Cody: Like if a movie's 20 years old and you , sorry, but that's your fault for not seeing it. But I won't give it 

[00:02:14] Tali: away. Or if you've seen 51st dates, they give it away there too. They do, yeah. Cuz one of the many, I've seen that movie so many times, isn't it? Birthday traditions that they have. For the dad is to watch the birthday gift that she gave him, which is the sixth sense.

[00:02:29] Tali: Oh man. I think on 

[00:02:30] Cody: vhs. Yeah. And they have to rewind it every time and mm-hmm. . 

[00:02:32] Tali: Yeah. And put it back in the box and yeah. I don't know about watching that movie every day. Oof. But once a spooky season is great. Yeah. So that's your 

[00:02:42] Cody: answer. I think that's the best one we've seen recently. Yeah. Mm-hmm. for sure.

[00:02:47] Tali: Well, I watched one solo today cuz I feel like we haven't watched enough this month, so I had to squeeze a whole bunch in since Halloween is tomorrow. And so I watched What Lies Beneath, which is [00:03:00] so classy. Mm-hmm. for a scary movie, if you think about it. Yeah. It's just super clean, super thrilling kind of slow paced.

[00:03:10] Tali: Mm-hmm. , but in a way that maintains entertainment the whole way through. I just think it's brilliant. It's such a goodie. 

[00:03:16] Cody: Yeah. And I'm just gonna. Nerd out on a little bit on that movie stuff I've already told you. But yeah, it's very much inspired by Alfred Hitchcock in both, its writing and its directing style.

[00:03:30] Cody: The camera angles coming from the dashboard and from the floor and Oh, the floor thing is the same. Yeah. And like dragging people across the floor and, and I don't know, it just, there's a lot of shots in there that you can actually see from Alfred Hitchcock films that they sort of replicated and the tempo, because a lot of Hitchcock films are sort of sleepy at first and like, like they take a little while to get traction.

[00:03:55] Cody: But then you realize that some of those seemingly insignificant things early in the [00:04:00] movie are poignant and have a purpose, and it all kind of comes together in this suspenseful, thriller situation. Yeah. And he, I feel like Alfred Hitchcock sort of invented that. Slow burn to a, a really in intense climax kind of thing.

[00:04:15] Cody: Back when movies were really cheesy, like horror movies back then were like the swamp thing and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And he brought sort of a sophistication to the whole storytelling aspect of it. Well, 

[00:04:25] Tali: what I love about what lies very cool beneath so much is yes, it kind of has that like sleepy steadiness to it, but there's so much, there are so many details, so many events, so many twists, so many turns the entire way through.

[00:04:39] Tali: Whereas I feel like the way horror movies are made now is like, there's like a whole lot of nothing and then something at the end. Mm-hmm. And so I just felt like there are many moments to be scared or to jump or to have, you know, chest pains. I get really intense chest pains when I watch scary movies.

[00:04:59] Tali: [00:05:00] But that's how I know I'm having a great time and that's the sign of a good movie to me. Yes. Yeah, it 

[00:05:04] Cody: was awesome. Both those movies have a similar sort of genre in that they're both those sort of twisty mind benders too. Like the thing you think is happening isn't happening. Mm-hmm. or the way you think it's happening isn't really like you find out some dramatic twists especially toward the 

[00:05:21] Tali: end and that's, yeah.

[00:05:22] Tali: And it slowly like, releases it. It doesn't just like give it all to you up front. Yeah. At all. 

[00:05:28] Cody: Yeah. And I'm pretty good at predicting movies. Like when I watch 'em, it's like, oh, I know what's about to happen. Sometimes I'll say lines before they happen and shit like that, and it's kind of annoying, 

[00:05:37] Tali: but I'm sorry to say, but that's a terrible quality.

[00:05:39] Tali: I 

[00:05:40] Cody: know. , I just said it's annoying, I think, but I can't help it. I'm like thinking about it. But the thing about like M Knight, shaman movies and I forget who directed what lies beneath, but I don't know. 

[00:05:53] Tali: But someone brilliant. 

[00:05:55] Cody: Those movies were really good at setting you up for a big [00:06:00] twist and you did not see it coming until it was revealed.

[00:06:03] Cody: And then it's like, oh, that all makes sense. Yeah. I have to 

[00:06:06] Tali: say though, this movie really ruins what's his name for me? Harrison Ford. Harrison Forden. Yeah. He's such a dick. Yeah. Terrible husband. Yeah. Well 

[00:06:15] Cody: you're giving stuff away now. Sorry. Spoiler alert. Sorry. Sorry. He's an asshole. 

[00:06:18] Tali: I mean, , I feel like that's really consistent all the way through.

[00:06:22] Tali: Anyway, watch it. If you haven't seen it, it's currently on Hulu, but who knows by the time this actually airs. 

[00:06:30] Cody: Today's topic. Today's topic is a little bit multifold, but I think we'll tease out a little bit how they're all related. We wrote down some notes for topics about opportunity costs. And particularly what brought this to mind is like three hours a day in the gym and like, what are you sacrificing in order to spend three hours a day in the gym and how much better is it really making you versus somebody who maybe spends 90 minutes really focused, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:06:57] Cody: So that also has to deal with Pareto's Law, [00:07:00] which is the 80 20 rule, and we'll get into that a little bit and then opportunity costs. And then I also wrote down here the law of diminishing returns. I think that those are all sort of interrelated as it as it happens with this particular topic. But of course, being the philosophy of fitness, we're gonna take that outside the gym and say, okay.

[00:07:18] Cody: Now if we're just using that training as an analogy, where else in your life does this apply? Mm-hmm. . So, well, 

[00:07:25] Tali: the first thing that came, the first thing that came to mind for me is I wonder what the average person how long they spend in the gym. Mm-hmm. ventured a guess. 

[00:07:37] Cody: I feel like most people block an hour just because we're taught that It's almost like a, like, gym class.

[00:07:42] Cody: Weird thing. Yeah. Like, well, CrossFit classes are always an hour. Not, well, 

[00:07:46] Tali: usually an hour. They are allotted for an hour. They don't always take up that much time. Yeah. 

[00:07:53] Cody: And then similarly with like aerobics and yoga and basically structured classes are usually 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah. [00:08:00] With like a 15 minute buffer between or whatever.

[00:08:02] Cody: I don't know. We break our lives up into strange little time allotments that are really subjective and Yeah. So I, I would venture to guess that's probably the average. So 

[00:08:13] Tali: back in the day I used to train for three hours in weightlifting and I haven't thought about it lately, but I really do question my efficiency at that time.

[00:08:23] Tali: Did I need to train for three hours or how much of that was like between lifts, hanging with friends? I definitely know that that's part of it. Yeah. Because if I had to be somewhere or I needed to adjust my training for whatever reason or move it to the morning or something, I could damn well get it done.

[00:08:42] Tali: Probably in two hours. Yeah. 

[00:08:44] Cody: We did it before. Cuz there were for a little while I was following your programming. Yeah. Just off and on. That wasn't consistent. And would we would do it at PJ's? No. Even before that. Way back at, at Vulcan. I would jump in with you on some of your training sessions. Yeah.

[00:08:57] Cody: How slow were we going? And well, sometimes we did get it done [00:09:00] quick, like if we had somewhere to be, or a date planned or something like that. Like we'd knock that shit out. But it was hard. It hard. 

[00:09:08] Tali: It was really hard. Hard. Yeah. And it's funny because I think it'd be easy to think that, oh, if I didn't have friends or distractions or other people around, I'd get it done a lot faster.

[00:09:18] Tali: And it's not really the case. I feel like I dilly dolly a lot more when I'm on my own. Oh yeah. Especially if 

[00:09:24] Cody: there's a phone handy . 

[00:09:25] Tali: Yeah. I I definitely rely on teammates or other people in the gym to keep me on track cuz it's easy to lose track of time, just like you were saying on the phone. You know, setting up a timer for yourself.

[00:09:38] Tali: Mm-hmm. is super eye-opening. There was a point in time where I noticed that I would come up, I would walk up to a lift and feel cold, meaning I had rested too long. Mm-hmm. and the stimulus of the previous lift kind of have had worn off and so that rep felt really heavy or really sloppy or whatever [00:10:00] and I started giving myself a very strict two minute rest time and damn made it feel like cardio.

[00:10:06] Tali: It was mm-hmm. a real, it was really hard work. But for those of you who are maybe training alone and have difficulty managing that time, I really suggest using a rest clock and train heroic the app that we use. for our clients actually has that built into the programming. So that's kind of cool to have that just ready and available and yeah.

[00:10:27] Cody: You can use shout it over and over. Shout Yeah. Shout out to Trainer ROIC on that because the way it's designed is really cool. It's like really fast to get to at the bottom of the screen during your training session and mm-hmm. , it doesn't take a lot of clicks. My phone is so annoying cuz I have to go through about five screens to get to a timer.

[00:10:42] Cody: Mm-hmm. with the built-in one. You just ate your 

[00:10:45] Tali: phone. Yeah, I do. So not a shout out to whatever company that is. Yeah. . 

[00:10:50] Cody: You, that's a golden nugget though with the rest clock because I, I do that too when I'm training alone. When I realize that [00:11:00] I'm dillying I'll just start a timer and even just an interval timer going Not just timing rests, but I'll just put an interval on.

[00:11:07] Cody: So if it's supposed to be a two minute rest Yeah, I'll put it for like three minutes and that 

[00:11:10] Tali: gives me, then you Oh, okay. I was gonna say, if you put it for two minutes, you actually don't 

[00:11:13] Cody: get that timing right. That's what I'm saying. So I, I kind of a lot. Okay. This set is taking me around 40 seconds or so, so it'll just be relentlessly.

[00:11:21] Cody: Like I gotta get that shit done and man, it makes a massive difference. 

[00:11:26] Tali: I'm just thinking about a real life experience that is sticking out in my mind so heavily right now. My mom used to give me a kitchen timer to clean my room. Nice. I used to have disastrous. Messy rooms as a kid. Mm-hmm. , which I'm sure is not a stretch for you to believe

[00:11:43] Tali: And it would take me, it would take me like a hundred years to clean and as you know, I like to organize as I go or I like to change my decor as I go or rearrange the room. And that really hasn't changed. And so, yeah, she used to give me a timer and it would really help cuz I not only would have a [00:12:00] consequence if I didn't finish within that time, but yeah.

[00:12:04] Tali: You're aware of time where it's just easy to, to not notice. Maybe we should do that 

[00:12:09] Cody: again. It's funny with cleaning our room or the house. Yeah. But it, it's kind of funny that you would bring that up because I've seen you do that like, You'll ask, okay, what time are we gonna wrap this up? And I'm like, I don't know.

[00:12:21] Cody: We're just doing shit. Like why do you, why do you gotta know that? Oh, I wonder why, if 

[00:12:24] Tali: that's where it comes from. But you do 

[00:12:25] Cody: that a lot. Yeah. You're like, 

[00:12:27] Tali: well, if we leave things open-ended, like, who knows? Yeah. Who knows when it's gonna happen. And you know, especially if you and I split off, like, I wanna be respectful of each other's time.

[00:12:36] Tali: When do you wanna meet up? Yep. I think that's a great way of going about it. I think it 

[00:12:41] Cody: is too. I just, I think it's cute. See where all this comes from? Yeah. You can blame my mom, . 

[00:12:45] Tali: I 

[00:12:45] Cody: think I think there's a really, I don't wanna get off of this yet though, because I also teach this in my book. Like when it comes to learning a new skill or, or learning in general or anything that you want to improve in your life, I'm a huge [00:13:00] fan of setting a timer because not only does it keep you more focused, just knowing that there's a timer going, but there, it also just, it, it eliminates procrastination cuz it's like a 3, 2, 1.

[00:13:12] Cody: Pavlovian response of having to just obey the clock, you know, when it starts, I'm writing and so I, I'll do that when I write. I actually, there's a timer, if you just Google or search for a timer online, there are websites that are literally just a timer and it goes off when, when it ends. But when you open a separate tab, the timer is on the tab so you can see it counting down at the top of your screen.

[00:13:36] Cody: Oh, that's nice. And then there's a little alarm goes off. And so I would do that for writing. I would always put like my writing session on a timer and it just, man, there is no, there's no writer's block with a timer. You may not be writing, well, it may be garbage, but like, there's just this weird little switch that that's flipped on.

[00:13:56] Cody: It's like, oh, I'm writing now. Like this is one I'm doing. It's pressure. It's, yeah. [00:14:00] Self-induced, but it's really 

[00:14:01] Tali: effective. Yeah. And I think one benefit that I don't believe you mentioned is that you are also guaranteed an ending point. Yeah. , you know, it's gonna come to a close mm-hmm. . And it's really hard when you're starting really daunting projects to, you don't even wanna approach it because you don't know how much of your day that's gonna take.

[00:14:19] Tali: Mm-hmm. , how much of your energy, whatever, you know, you and I were cleaning out the gym just like 30 minutes at a time. Yeah. And a lot would happen in 30 minutes. It was amazing. But if you were just to be like, this afternoon we're gonna clean out the gym, you know, it'd be easy to push it and push it and push it and not really wanna do it.

[00:14:39] Cody: Yeah. And it not only does it, is it more motivating to know that there's an end, but it's just easier to structure. And I'm, I'm a big fan of that because instead of, you know, I'm always trying to advocate for, okay, let's not put on our to-do list that we're going to finish this thing. Let's put on our to-do list that we are going to work on this thing.

[00:14:57] Cody: Mm-hmm. and see how far we get, you know, [00:15:00] Approach it with a little bit of grace and curiosity. , it's, 

[00:15:02] Tali: it's an important distinction. I feel like wording is super important. 

[00:15:06] Cody: Well, it gets depressing when you think you're gonna finish something and then you go out there for two hours and work on it and it's like, oh, this is gonna take four days.

[00:15:12] Cody: And if you go into it with that mindset of like, we're gonna put two hours into this thing and just see how far we get. Yeah. Then it's a lot less demoralizing when you realize. Well, that was a good dent, but we're not 

[00:15:24] Tali: done . Well, it's very much like the episode that we did just before this. Do I have to do this or do I get to do this?

[00:15:29] Tali: Yeah, you can reframe almost anything to make it much more appealing. Yeah. 

[00:15:34] Cody: It's funny that we have to play these games with our own minds. . 

[00:15:38] Tali: It's the pleasure of being human, I guess. . 

[00:15:40] Cody: Yeah. So we're a little off topic, but I think that was a gold and nugget. The timer thing is really. . So Pareto's Law, do you mind if I read a little bit about Pareto's Law?

[00:15:48] Tali: Sure. But I, before you get into it mm-hmm. , I am not super familiar with this man or this law. Mm-hmm. . And so this 80 20 rule I might have interpreted [00:16:00] differently in terms of the way that I have been taught the 80 20 rule or the concept. So I'm curious to see how they match up . Yeah, that's fine. If 

[00:16:09] Cody: at all.

[00:16:09] Cody: That's fine. I, I had learned about it in like business seminars many times and you know, it comes up over and over and over again. And so I had never really looked it up either, but I just have the Wikipedia page here and we all know that WI can always trust Wikipedia to be completely accurate about everything.

[00:16:24] Cody: Wow. He looks like 

[00:16:25] Tali: my cousin , don't you think? 

[00:16:28] Cody: Who do you think I'm thinking of? Your cousin. Yeah. You only know so many of my cousins. Sorry. Oh, come on. He looks like Addison. You think? 

[00:16:39] Cody: Yeah, I don't know. A Addison looks like he's got more presence. I don't know. This guy looks a little diminutive compared to Addison, but I'm just looking on the beard.

[00:16:48] Cody: Yeah. , he's got the beard game for sure. . So I'm not even gonna try to say his entire name. His last name's Pareto. Vil. Vireo. Ricio. Dema. [00:17:00] Pareto. Pareto. I don't know you, you're speaking Italian. Why don't you give him shot? I can't help you, . Okay. Well anyway, he was an Italian economist. He was born in 1848, so that kind of gives you the era that we're talking about where he came up with this.

[00:17:13] Cody: But basically he was, I believe, an economist and he was studying land distribution of Italy. And it turns out that 80% of the land was owned by 20% of the people. And then he started looking at other countries, which you would think would vary quite. A lot because different countries have different laws and different structures and different economic structures.

[00:17:34] Cody: And it turned out that it was kind of the same in almost every country he looked at that 80% of the land was owned by 20% of the people. And since then since it's sort of become part of the conscious awareness, other economists and scientists and computer programmers and everything have really taken this on and, and seen this distribution all over the place.

[00:17:56] Cody: So in economics, usually about 80% of the [00:18:00] wealth is, or 80% of the income, I should say, is had by 20% of the people and vice versa. But even if you look at a smaller demographic, like look at the richest 1%, which are always, you know, really criticized the billionaires or whatever, and you look at the richest 1% and 80 20 still applies like out of the 1%.

[00:18:21] Cody: 20% of them have 80% of that wealth too. So this weird continues to sh to present itself over and over and over again and in many parts of nature. So they found in computer science that for, it says, for example, Microsoft. Microsoft noticed, noted that by fixing the top 20% of the most reported bugs, 80% of the related errors and crashes in a given system would be eliminated.

[00:18:47] Cody: And so that's not, you know, that's not an economic distribution, that's just, that's computer science. And then there's occupational health and safety. If you list like the most hazardous things, , [00:19:00] 80% of the accidents happen with 20% of the things. And so if you just fix those 20%, you've, you actually eliminate 80% of accidents in a workplace or whatever.

[00:19:10] Cody: And then they've done it in engineering, health and social outcomes. There's a whole bunch of what's 

[00:19:16] Tali: the health and social outcomes. 

[00:19:17] Cody: Let's see. In 2009, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality said 20% of patients incurred 80% of the healthcare expenses due to chronic conditions showed an unequal distribution of healthcare costs with older patients.

[00:19:31] Cody: And those with poorer health incurring more costs. Duh. That's obvious. But, but the weird part is that it's like so accurate. They're, they're looking at you know, 22% of children in the study accounted for 81% of the criminal convictions in New Zealand study. Wow. So it, it's 22% and 81%. It's almost always exactly 80 20.

[00:19:54] Cody: It's weird how. You know, we intuitively see that there's always like haves and haves, [00:20:00] nots and a minority of people having privilege or, or whatever. But that distribution is almost always really predictable and just not to pound on this economic thing too much, but there's been situations where there'll be a reset, you know, in a company or in a culture or like a little communist culture, a commune or something like that.

[00:20:21] Cody: And if everybody is given sort of the same starting situation, it will end up over time, redistributing to about 80 20 again. That's so interesting. It's, yeah. So it's not like somebody's fault or anything, it's just kind of a, it's 

[00:20:37] Tali: occurring in nature all over the place. 

[00:20:38] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. It's a rule of nature.

[00:20:39] Cody: And then the last one, and then I'll get off of this, but it's kind of funny. It said in 1988, many video rental shops reported that 80% of revenue came from 20% of the titles. Wow. So, . Yeah. 

[00:20:52] Tali: Anyway any fitness related options? Not 

[00:20:55] Cody: on Wikipedia there. Okay. Yeah. Not on Wikipedia, but I think we can [00:21:00] safely apply that principle, even if it's not exactly 80 20 to the amount of work that you do in the gym.

[00:21:07] Cody: I, I would say that there's 20% of the stuff that you actually do that's providing about 80% of the results, and then the rest of it is, you know, little accessory stuff here and there. That's gonna improve things marginally in comparison, especially when you're talking about a professional athlete. So when you were spending three hours, you know, 15 hours a week in the gym,

[00:21:30] Cody: The thing about competition is that a marginal difference can be the difference between winning and losing. Mm-hmm. . So professional athletes or competitive athletes, they need that marginal improvement. So they need to put in that like a hundred percent all everything they can to try to get that little extra edge over their competition.

[00:21:49] Cody: Mm-hmm. . But for the general population to be really fit or really strong or even pretty good at a skill like guitar playing or whatever, you could, if you were just really [00:22:00] focused on the most effective 20% of what a professional athlete does, you'd be 80% of the way there. And who wouldn't wanna be like 80% of a pro athlete like that for most people is incredible.

[00:22:11] Cody: Yeah. So, so I think there's a case to be made there for the opportunity costs of spending so much time in the gym. If you're not a competitive athlete, what's the point, you know? Because that's time that you could be developing a different skill, working on your relationships or , you know spending that valuable time elsewhere instead of the marginal gain that you're gonna get from that extra 

[00:22:33] Tali: time.

[00:22:34] Tali: Well, and I had made a note similarly that said, you know, how much do you want to embody whatever it is that you're pursuing? And we've talked about, you know, what does it take to be a weightlifter? What does it take to be a guitar player? There is a difference between I am a musician and I play guitar sometimes.

[00:22:53] Tali: Yeah. And so that distinction I think is really about how many hours have been put in. [00:23:00] And I guess that that can be distributed in all kinds of ways. And you know, now that I'm getting back into lifting, I have no desire to train for that long because there's so many other things that I want to do.

[00:23:13] Tali: Mm-hmm. , and I don't know, I still consider myself a weightlifter though, regardless. Yeah. probably just cuz it's, it's just something that's coded in me at this point. You know? There's so much muscle memory that I cannot, I'm not, I haven't rid myself of it in even taking time off. Significant time off. Yeah.

[00:23:34] Cody: Well and you have that kind of history, that street cred, you know, like even in retirement, tiger Woods will still be a golfer. Yeah. Because that, you know, he was there and so I think history comes into play with some of that identity as well. Mm-hmm. just like, it's, it's just like I tend to think of myself as an artist even though when I sit down to draw I'm super frustrated cuz I've let my skills dilapidate so horribly.

[00:23:58] Cody: But I still [00:24:00] kind of identify that way because I spent so much time in that world at one point. Mm-hmm. and I know it's in me, like it's in there somewhere, you know? So Well 

[00:24:06] Tali: if you have an eye for it too, like it has changed your. brain chemistry in a way, you know, you see the world differently as a result.

[00:24:14] Tali: And I think we had an episode about this, about really allowing that change to wash over you or to take over you if you have the interest and the joy and all the components that allow you to really give it a fair chance. And so, you know, I think it's important to assess, like, how, how important is it for you to identify with whatever it is that you're trying to get good at?

[00:24:43] Tali: Mm-hmm. , do you wanna be competitive? Do you wanna be the best? Those kinds of things. Do you wanna be known for it? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's tricky though because when it comes to this 80 20 rule, you know, the way I had. Heard of it was not [00:25:00] really true to what you had read earlier. It was more like, well, if you give 80% effort all the time, like you are going to move the needle.

[00:25:09] Tali: You know, we can't be at a hundred percent all the time. Or you know, we have talked about like being a hundred percent on an 80% day is giving a hundred percent . Yeah. But maybe in a different way of thinking about it instead of, you know, physical activity. I think about this a lot when it comes to nutrition.

[00:25:27] Tali: 80 20. If I'm hitting like 80% targets on my macros for the day, like I'm feeling pretty good about it. Mm-hmm. , it's not perfect work. It's not a hundred percent of what has been asked of me mm-hmm. or what is required of me to get to where I wanna go. I can feel really good about 80% and I know that if I do 80% really consistently, I'm still gonna get to where I wanna go.

[00:25:49] Tali: It just might be slower. Mm-hmm. so. , it doesn't really take into account like the other 20%. And I'm trying to think about how we could kind of [00:26:00] decipher like, what does that 20% represent in the way that you had described that dynamic. And so in this case it would be like 80% eating whole foods, eating 80% of the carbohydrates and fats in pson protein that's required of me.

[00:26:13] Tali: And then the extra 20% is just being like, meh, fuck it. I'm just gonna like estimate that I'm not gonna fully track it. I'm not gonna weigh it, measure it, whatever. Mm-hmm. . And so since this concept is a little bit more like readily available to you, can you see that relationship and like how they 

[00:26:31] Cody: Yeah.

[00:26:32] Cody: I you work together? I think we may be talking about two different concepts. I think it is, but so Pareto's law has to do with like 80% of a cause or 20% of a cause. having 80% of the effect. Mm-hmm. . So it's similar though. I, because that 

[00:26:49] Tali: it's more of just a ratio 

[00:26:50] Cody: thing. Yeah. But with your description of it too, though, there could be a situation where, let, let's say the, the 80% of your, if you're dialed [00:27:00] in 80%, then you're gonna get

[00:27:07] Cody: 20% rate 

[00:27:07] Tali: of change. . Well, 

[00:27:09] Cody: I don't know. You're probably like in the top 20% of people in their nutrition habits. I see what you're saying. Okay. And, you know because most people are, aren't even giving a fuck. You know, most people are, and I can safely say most people, because look at the statistics of the US population.

[00:27:25] Cody: It's sad. It is sad. And so we, we have a very unhealthy society and an unhealthy relationship with food and commercialism and all that kind of stuff. So Yeah. I would say if you're 80% on track, you're in the top 20% of people as far as their, their nutrition, nutritional health. 

[00:27:42] Tali: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[00:27:43] Tali: It's really easy to forget about the country at large or the world at large when you're in the fitness industry, because it is easy to forget that we compare 

[00:27:53] Cody: ourselves to athletes, right? Yeah. . 

[00:27:56] Tali: Yeah. Right. And it's really easy to forget, like when you get a new [00:28:00] client or something like where their baseline is, is like on another planet mm-hmm.

[00:28:04] Tali: than what you and I are used to. And like, you and I beat ourselves up over what a lot of people would consider like a great win. Oh yeah. You know, our perspective is kind of janky in that 

[00:28:14] Cody: way. Yeah. I mean, I mean I'm, I'm 47 and I would like to put on some more muscle and get leaner. Not just to get back to where I was, but even hopefully better than where I was, like, still have hope that I can still be in the best shape of my life.

[00:28:31] Cody: But I'm 189 pounds and almost six foot tall at 47, which means statistically I'm way the fuck ahead of the game. . As far as statistics in our culture as far 

[00:28:43] Tali: as BMI goes, 

[00:28:45] Cody: well that garbage. Yeah. 

[00:28:47] Tali: Yeah. 

[00:28:50] Cody: So there's a book that, the next book on my list I really, really want to get is called Essentialism. And I think it's really helping to [00:29:00] break down like what is the top 20% most effective things that I can be doing right now.

[00:29:05] Cody: And not just, the book isn't like telling you what to do, like, well it should be exercise and meditation. Does it just show 

[00:29:11] Tali: you like what in any field? Like what to 

[00:29:13] Cody: look for? It's like anything, yeah, anything in your life. Like how to, like, how to think about things in your life so that you're working just on the 

[00:29:19] Tali: essentials.

[00:29:20] Tali: Essentialism, is that what it was called? Mm-hmm. . That's kind of interesting. And 

[00:29:24] Cody: I had heard of the book before and heard really good things about it. But I was introduced to the guy's podcast and it's really, really good. I think it's one of my favorite podcasts. Like this guy, it is just a solo podcast.

[00:29:36] Cody: He just talks on his own, but he's really good. Like he really. Boils things down into very essential concepts that are really easy to digest and things you can implement into your life. It's really good stuff. I think I'm not, I'm gonna not gonna say his name live here because I'm gonna screw it up, but it'll be in the show notes.

[00:29:56] Cody: Why does 

[00:29:57] Tali: everybody have such a challenging 

[00:29:58] Cody: name? I don't know. But I'm gonna [00:30:00] I just forgot it. I'm just have so many authors in my head that I'm gonna say the wrong one. So I'm gonna put it in the show notes. Okay. And there'll be a link to the book because if anyone wants to read it along with me, that's gonna be my next read for 

[00:30:11] Tali: sure.

[00:30:12] Tali: Don't you think that most programs though, when you're learning anything, those essential properties or those essential building blocks are always gonna be at the beginning? Like those are always a part of the beginner 

[00:30:26] Cody: phase. Yeah, I think as far as structured learning, that's, we would hope the case, you know on the other hand, you know, for, for many, many, many years, music has been taught mathematically.

[00:30:41] Cody: So if you go to structured learning environment and learn music, the first thing you learn is the scales and how notes relate to each other. And you're starting to like, you know, look at sheet music and see a scale on that. You're kind of learning a little bit of theory and stuff, and I love it. I, I'm not complaining about that, but [00:31:00] man, what is it with me and names today?

[00:31:03] Cody: I'm blanking on this. Sorry freaking name. And he's like my, one of my favorite guitar players ever. Anyway, he, he teaches students, but the way he teaches is like, you're gonna write a song today. Not, not you're gonna learn a song, not we're gonna practice these scales. It's, you're gonna write a song today.

[00:31:19] Cody: And he'll teach 'em like two chords and then he'll let them play those chords in any kind of like configuration back and forth and just practice. So they're learning the essentials of the chords in the hand movement. Is this 

[00:31:31] Tali: the guy who has a masterclass? 

[00:31:33] Cody: I think he did Tom Morillo. Oh, I 

[00:31:35] Tali: was gonna say Morere.

[00:31:36] Tali: Darn it. Tom 

[00:31:37] Cody: Morelo. He should have just gone with it. He's just like this genius guitar player. And which band was he a part of? Okay, so he and Chris Cornell were in a couple bands together and I, and Chris Cornell was in a bunch of different bands. Oh. So they're all muddled in my head. But he was in RA Rage Against The Machine is his, that's where most people would recognize his guitar playing.

[00:31:56] Cody: Cuz Rage has that, that really unique sound that Rage has. [00:32:00] That's him. Wow. And but he's been in sound Garden. No, not Sound Garden Audio Sleeve with Chris Cornell. Different 

[00:32:08] Tali: pants. Yes. . Sorry. Anyway, maybe you should just say things for the show, . 

[00:32:14] Cody: I'll just, yeah. All specifics will in the show notes, give 

[00:32:17] Tali: it just, just like pause and then we can just like insert it.

[00:32:20] Tali: Yeah. My brain 

[00:32:21] Cody: is on 20% today and 80% is not here. So, I will do 80% of the show notes later. Okay. . 

[00:32:29] Tali: Okay. I wish that this was more concrete in my mind how this dynamic works. For some reason it's kind of getting twisted up in my head of how to decipher it. 

[00:32:41] Cody: Well, I think to carry over into other aspects of our life from the gym, I think it's safe to think of it in terms of that essentialism that I was talking about, of trying to identify what, what's the most valuable things I need to do and what is that.

[00:32:57] Cody: This out of this big long list that I've [00:33:00] made for myself, probably about 80% of that is not going to have hugely impactful results. So, for instance taking it back to our business there's a lot of things I could be doing throughout the week. Podcasts are something that we love, but really are not affecting our business at this point.

[00:33:19] Cody: Mm-hmm. , maybe long term, like five years from now. Editing those podcasts, writing blogs, social media posts writing programming for people that I am not even coaching yet, but just, or gonna someday, like there's a whole bunch of stuff to do. And it's important, but how essential is it to actually launching our business versus reaching out to our email list and like reaching out to individuals and telling them about what we're about to do, like people is what we really need to be working with right now, and not like podcasts and programming and, and all that stuff.

[00:33:55] Cody: So that's maybe a good example of how to carry this over. Like if I [00:34:00] focus the first 20% of my day on these really, really impactful. Outreach, you know, actually talking to people that's probably gonna have a, a, an 80% increase in effectiveness versus me just going down my list randomly and spending half my day editing and writing and doing all this stuff that I might enjoy, but it's not moving the needle on our 

[00:34:23] Tali: business.

[00:34:24] Tali: It's interesting that you mentioned lists because you and I are very good at making lists, and you taught me the concept of like big rocks versus small rocks. Mm-hmm. and ways to feel accomplished and to kind of balance out what you prioritize in terms of like getting momentum. Start with a bunch of small rocks.

[00:34:45] Tali: Mm-hmm. . But the big rocks are kind of this larger, daunting, take more of your energy type. tasks that can really move the needle, if you will. Yeah. 

[00:34:57] Cody: Sometimes those aren't necessarily the same [00:35:00] thing. What? The things that take the most energy aren't necessarily the things that are gonna move the needle the most.

[00:35:05] Cody: Mm-hmm. . And I think that's, you don't think, well, I feel like 

[00:35:07] Tali: that's why they are daunting. I feel like that's why they have the feeling around them that they 

[00:35:13] Cody: do. Yeah. I mean, they often are, but I don't know that it's a complete carryover. And I think that's where Essentialism comes in, is to really identify what really needs to be done versus what you think should be done.

[00:35:26] Cody: And you might be able to take some of the workload off of you by being able to identify things that are really important. Hmm. 

[00:35:36] Tali: I mean, being able to prioritize effectively is super important. Oh, yeah. It's huge. And I think that that is a major theme in this topic, whether we're talking about Paros Distribution.

[00:35:46] Tali: Distribution. Mm-hmm. , or the way that I had discussed it, they're both taking into account priority. And you know, when I was prioritizing weightlifting and, you know, I thought that I wanted to go pro and I thought about [00:36:00] moving to Israel and like lifting from Maccabi Tel Aviv. I had a lot of bigger plans when it came to weightlifting, and I thought that I had kind of gotten all my ducks in a row with you know, having it be my profession, having it be my social life.

[00:36:14] Tali: Mm-hmm. , you know, there was one point where I was dating a weightlifter and I was like, okay, I, no, it's complete . Yeah. I've done everything that I can do to be a weightlifter and give myself the very best chance as this is now the water that I swim in and the lens that I look at everything through.

[00:36:33] Tali: Mm-hmm. . However, that commitment is not really a sustainable one. , it wasn't, it just wasn't. Mm-hmm. . And so I think at this point in time, you know, still lifting, but having reassessed what my desires are for my life and the things that I wanna accomplish, that ratio is changing a lot. 

[00:36:54] Cody: Yeah. So can I ask you to go into a little bit why it wasn't sustainable?

[00:36:58] Tali: Why [00:37:00] for you, why wasn't sustainable? Well,

[00:37:04] Tali: it's hard to point to one thing, but it was just very demanding of my time. For one. You know, I spent a lot of my time in the gym. I joke a lot of the time with folks out here who invite me hiking and stuff that more of an indoor girl , you know, I just spent a lot of time indoors and like, that's where I feel comfy in a gym and.

[00:37:28] Tali: you know, it really took time away from my relationships. You know, I, I think that you were a big catalyst in my life as a weightlifter, and I think, I think it's easy to maybe see that as a negative thing. But I feel like I've gained so much from my life because of our time together, so I don't see it that way.

[00:37:48] Tali: Yeah. But I'm gonna let you in on something. I don't know if I've actually ever told you this. There was a time during training once that, I don't think I cried or anything, but it was like very [00:38:00] early on when you and I were dating and I could tell that things were getting serious and I had just like a little flustering moment where I was like, I cannot let this get in the way of where I want to go.

[00:38:13] Tali: Mm-hmm. . And I was really afraid of like, feeling like I couldn't have it all. Mm-hmm. feeling like I could not be this like, amazing athlete that I. could have become and have the relationship that I want. I felt like I had to choose mm-hmm. and it all kind of came to a halt for very different reasons. It was not as a result of that choice.

[00:38:36] Tali: It was more, you know, out of having a really hard time like working with the coach that I had at the time, and feeling like we were no longer working together effectively. And, you know, it would be obvious to just switch coaches, but for me that was very hard to do, you know, to find the right situation to, to feel like I could do it with their [00:39:00] blessing too, almost felt like it wasn't an option.

[00:39:04] Tali: Yeah. It's hard for that not to be taken personally, and I've been on the other side of it. I've had clients who move on from me and I have definitely taken it personally at times. Yeah. You know, there's definitely great reasons that people coaching 

[00:39:15] Cody: move on coaching. Yeah. Coaching is, And I don't think this is just fitness, but particularly for us, coaching is a very intimate relationship.

[00:39:24] Cody: You know? It is. We are really trying to get to know our clients so that we can serve them the best that we can. And in that process of getting to know them to serve them better you grow attached. I mean, there's a connection there, you know, so clients become more than just a paying member, you know, it's very different.

[00:39:40] Cody: So yeah, I, I get that a lot. I, it's funny that you'd say that. You don't know if you told me that or not cuz you and I are so transparent. We've made a practice of really telling all to each other. And I remember that time. I remember, did I tell you that? Yeah. And I don't know that you told me that in real time, but I just told probably not.

[00:39:59] Cody: I know [00:40:00] that it was going on and it's one of the reasons why I tried so hard to support your training and. Your macros and like all that is, is not just cuz I loved you and wanted to support you, but I didn't want you to feel like you had to choose. Yeah. I wanted you to feel like you could have it all because I wanted to be someone who could come in and support you.

[00:40:21] Cody: You know, I, I pictured myself being your sort of like side coach where I could do like some therapies for you, you know, wrap your calves for you or whatever it is. So yeah, you 

[00:40:30] Tali: could do that before me. So it was so 

[00:40:31] Cody: sweet and that's why I, you know, that's one reason I wanted to try to fill that role is to show you that you could have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

[00:40:39] Cody: Yeah. But you kind of answered my question the way I thought you might because it, it closely relates to one of my notes that I have here, which is that when it comes to what I had mentioned before, which is like being a pro. A pro athlete can't necessarily obey Pareto's law. They kind of have to do a hundred percent because somebody else out there is also [00:41:00] doing a hundred percent.

[00:41:00] Cody: And so yes, you should focus on the most critical 20% that's gonna move the needle the most, but you also have to do all that busy work, that 80% that's only gonna marginally move things because that margin is the difference between winning and losing competition. Yeah. And so then that brings me to a different question is like, how good do you wanna be at something?

[00:41:23] Cody: And I've thought about this a lot, like I don't care if I'm ever a professional musician and sell records. I don't care if my art is ever like widely distributed and recognized. I would like that for my writing, but I don't need to be like the best, I don't really give a shit about any bestseller list or anything like that, but what I really.

[00:41:45] Cody: Think as valuable is that if you take this sort of 80 20 rule, it could allow you to be a more generalist, but you could be really damn good. Like you could be 80% better than most of the population at like 10 different things because you're not giving a [00:42:00] hundred percent to one 

[00:42:01] Tali: thing. Well, so one of my notes is how much are you giving into fomo?

[00:42:06] Tali: The fear of missing out? Yes. And you know, there have been times like right now that it crosses my mind, like, will I be that good at anything ever again? Sure. And I would say the same thing, I'd say Sure. It took a lot of hours though, to do it. Yeah. And It's weird though because it's almost kind of set this tone or set a standard in my life that like, if I ever wanna feel that high again, I'm gonna work.

[00:42:37] Tali: Really, I'm gonna have to work really, really hard. Mm-hmm. . But the tricky thing is, is like I don't wanna just work really, really hard at anything. I wanna be in love with it. Yeah. It's gotta be something that spark, that's the hard part. That's the really hard part to find whatever it is that, that little niche that feeds you that much that it, I was willing to give that kind of time.

[00:42:58] Tali: I was willing to mm-hmm. [00:43:00] do all of those things that I did. Yeah. 

[00:43:02] Cody: Yeah. I don't know if you want to leave this in the podcast and we can edit this out, but what I, I sort of have a hope right now because I'm, there's sort of something sparked in me that's like burning and it's starting to like, I'm fanning the flames.

[00:43:18] Cody: It's like growing, which is you and I coaching couples together. Yeah. And the impact that we could have on other people's lives, because we know a lot about how to get people fit. Mm-hmm. , we know some of how to get them to develop better practices and habits. And we, you and I have, I think, the most amazing relationship I've ever heard of.

[00:43:45] Cody: in any storybook or anything, humble, brag, . And I'm not, yeah, I'm, I'm, it's not even humble, like I'm just fucking saying it. Like you and I are fucking awesome together. We have such an incredible relationship and the reason I say that that's sort of starting to [00:44:00] not like fan of flame within myself is that I would really love for you and I to be as good as you were at weightlifting for us as a team to be as good at helping other people.

[00:44:13] Cody: To sort of have what we have 

[00:44:17] Tali: that I'm totally into the idea. And I guess the only reason I stalled there for a second is, you know, I'm not sure what that looks like to do that with another person. I guess you could think of it as like a teammate or a, not necessarily a coach, but someone who's alongside the process, who's mm-hmm.

[00:44:37] Tali: who has a lot of input. I think about that a lot too. I really do. And I, it makes me nervous sometimes to think about it because I, you know, I've married you, I've already like, committed my life to being with you, and I'm so glad that I did. And then there's part of me that is worried about, well [00:45:00] that's, that's a lot to invest in.

[00:45:04] Tali: And then the fear in me thinks what happens when we feel like we can no longer do it or something. And then you and I have to split it up or go our own ways. You know, I've actually seen that happen before. Yeah. With like programs and things that I use that started out, couples running it and now they're no longer doing it.

[00:45:26] Tali: They're both kicking ass and like doing their own things. Mm-hmm. and they've both been really successful. But it's a really, well that's, it's 

[00:45:34] Cody: just something that crosses my mind. Yeah. But I kind of look at this as a little bit of like a, insurance isn't the right word, but sort of like an usance that we could have a longer go at it if we are in the business of it.

[00:45:49] Cody: Because you and I both. Things by teaching you. You and I both have that as sort of like our, our preferred way of getting into a [00:46:00] subject or a skill is to learn as we teach it to somebody else. Like passing that information along to somebody else is so rewarding and it's so motivating that it helps us to actually move ourselves to do better.

[00:46:16] Cody: Mm-hmm. , and we're always sort of rising to the occasion as coaches. Mm-hmm. , that's the way you and I both operate. Well, it's 

[00:46:21] Tali: all about staying one step ahead and it's literally the why, hopefully more . Yeah. But yes, it's literally a minimum one step ahead. Yeah. You, 

[00:46:28] Cody: you don't have to be the best, you just have to be better than the people that you're coaching.

[00:46:31] Cody: But my point is, is like when I decided to become a personal trainer, I was 230 pounds and had pneumonia and I wasn't just 230 pounds. Like there are people out there who are 230 pounds and pretty fit. No, I, I was chubby. 230 pounds sickly. I could not, like, I couldn't race my kid from the car to the grocery store.

[00:46:58] Cody: Like playing little games like [00:47:00] that, I'd be fucking winded. Mm-hmm. , it was bad. Like I couldn't run one time around a track without throwing up. It was really, really bad. But I started . I didn't start, I didn't get in shape and then become a coach. I became a coach and through what I was learning in order to help other people, I was able to improve my own situation.

[00:47:19] Cody: And I just see that sort of principle applying to our business in that if we are teaching people what we've learned so far in our relationship that has made it so amazing and we're helping to lift people up in that process, then it, it's only going to help us connect in new ways and like yes, research ways of how can we deepen this?

[00:47:40] Cody: How can we prolong this amazing thing that we've got going? 

[00:47:44] Tali: Yes. And I think that you and I have a lot of experience to back us up and I definitely feel moved to. Do more research and more learning, which is really exciting. I feel like I haven't been in that place professionally. Mm-hmm. in a long time.

[00:47:58] Tali: Where, [00:48:00] when weightlifting was a newer venture for me, I watched everything. I went to every thing I could attend. You know, it was really important for me to just like, eat it up and, you know, now I feel a little bit out of touch, not so much with like the like the sport itself and like, not a lot evolves in terms of like technique.

[00:48:23] Tali: Like all of those things are pretty much the same. It's just how you decide to use them. But I just feel like I haven't been super innovative. that realm in a long time and I'm really ready to do something different. In what, in what realm? In coaching. Oh yeah. Yeah. I just feel like I need to be challenged again.

[00:48:45] Tali: And I really love the idea of looking at this at an, in a new angle. Mm-hmm. entirely. And I wouldn't be able to do the coaching couples without you because you're so integral to my understanding. Your, our interaction [00:49:00] with each other is what allows that to be a product. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:49:04] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's where I'm at on that.

[00:49:09] Cody: Good. Anyway, that was kind of a tangent. It was. There's 

[00:49:11] Tali: just, this is like tangent city over here. 

[00:49:14] Cody: So I guess to wrap up where I was going with that earlier though you were talking about the reason it wasn't the reason why weightlifting started to diminish in your life. I don't think I was the reason.

[00:49:29] Cody: But you did recognize that you wanted more than just to be a weightlifter, like you wanted more in your life than just to be that. Well, yeah, 

[00:49:36] Tali: and I think a lot of that was inspired by you because you are such an eclectic person. You have so many dimensions, and I love them all, and I feel like all of my dimensions mm-hmm.

[00:49:48] Tali: fit with yours.

[00:49:52] Tali: I don't know. Like there was, there's, you know, I've seen people like either age out of the sport or get injured from the sport. And [00:50:00] then, you know, there are people who have been on the other side of it and they look back with a lot of like regret or bad feelings and it was just really important to me like not to get to that place.

[00:50:09] Tali: Mm-hmm. . And I think that I have like glimpses of it at times where I kind of like mourn that time of my life being over. But I really try to like lean into the fondness that I have for it. It was like what I consider like the golden era. Mm-hmm. of weightlifting. I feel like the culture has changed a lot and maybe it just looks like that because I'm out of it.

[00:50:32] Tali: Well 

[00:50:33] Cody: our entire culture that we live in has changed 

[00:50:35] Tali: a lot. I know that's few years. That's just a part of getting older, 

[00:50:38] Cody: isn't it? Well, it is. And we also have this weird accelerating. Weirdness that's happening right now in, in our culture at 

[00:50:45] Tali: large. Yeah. There's a lot of like very unrecognizable dynamics and yeah.

[00:50:49] Tali: I'm trying to think of like what I was thinking about this just the other day and I can't remember what it was. Gosh darn it. Ignore me. You'll come to me . 

[00:50:59] Cody: I'll never [00:51:00] ignore you. But yeah, I look back at that with a little bit of wistful fondness too. Like it's not just a good old days thing. It's just like I, I'm sad that that era didn't last longer for us.

[00:51:11] Cody: It was such a beautiful time. You know, when you, which era? When you were at the height of your weightlifting and, no, we were in that little apartment and getting to know each other. We were both coaching all the time and you know, I dunno, 

[00:51:24] Tali: we were, I feel like it ran its course. It really did. Yeah. You know, Part of me that worried about like, oh man, am I gonna be doing this forever,

[00:51:33] Tali: And it wasn't the lifting and the competing, it was more the coaching. You know, what I was in knew we were doing it well, and I was working at Nike at the time, and the, the gal who was like the head of my department, I think was in her fifties, and she was like amazingly in shape and she was super funny and like really great at what she did.

[00:51:50] Tali: But I was like, shit, can I do this like into my fifties? And like, you know, if Nike hadn't shut down and restructured and everything because of Covid, [00:52:00] like I probably could have done that. Like, it was a very comfortable situation. Yeah. You know, there were definitely things about working there that were a challenge to me, but in terms of like the financial viability and the coaching opportunities, like I could have done that for such a long time, but, I feel really grateful that I'm not there because it's important for me to have chapters in my life and to have varied experience.

[00:52:27] Tali: And that just makes me think about what I had said earlier, like, will I ever be that good at anything ever again? And I hope it's sewing , 

[00:52:38] Cody: you know? I kind of hope it is for you too, because I know that it's not just sewing, like, oh look, I, I made a sweater, you know, whatever. It's, it's, I wanna make sweaters.

[00:52:47] Cody: Yeah. But you are also, you have a passion for fashion, a passion for fashion. Yeah. I, that is hate that those, right, that it is slow down some somewhat analogous to your [00:53:00] weightlifting passion, I think. 

[00:53:01] Tali: How, what, 

[00:53:03] Cody: because I've seen you watch hours and hours of shows that are surrounded by fashion and you, let me, let me demonstrate a little bit because I know this is maybe a gender stereotype or whatever, but.

[00:53:17] Cody: When I go vintage shopping, I pick something up and I'm like, this looks like decent quality. And it's a cool style. You're like, from across the room, I know that designer and you know who the fuck designed this dress before you even walk up to it. And then you go up and confirm and you're like, oh, yep.

[00:53:32] Cody: Says it on the tag. And I'm like, how, how, how, how is that 

[00:53:37] Tali: even possible? It's an illness. , it's not an illness, but you know what, that is like a, that's like a group that's a tribe that I'm, I very much wanna be a part of. Yeah. That's one reason that Alyssa and I get along so well. I think as such, we have a lot of similar interests and can dive so deep into what is probably so trivial to other people.

[00:53:59] Tali: Yeah. 

[00:53:59] Cody: Well [00:54:00] that's why I said it's analogous to your weightlifting. Yeah. Because you don't, you don't. , the experience with fashion to draw these like analogies, like the philosophy of fitness? No, but that's because of lack of experience, not because of a lack of interest. So I can see sewing actually seriously becoming something that if you're able to design your own clothing or augment existing designs I can see that being a big deal for 

[00:54:25] Tali: you.

[00:54:26] Tali: Well, I've thought about it in terms of like carrying it over to weightlifting too, just in terms of like having clothing that flatterers, muscular bodies. Mm-hmm. , that's so fucking hard to find out of the athleisure style. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So yeah, I've thought about that many times. All right.

[00:54:45] Tali: Because it's a struggle. It really is. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's fun. What were we talking about 

[00:54:51] Cody: again? We are all over the place today. . I think it's just a free for all. Sure. We are not practicing essentialism. We are just winging it. Wing [00:55:00] it. , do you have other notes? Do you have more notes than I did? Well

[00:55:07] Tali: I did talk about reassessment and I think that's such an important part of our lives that is important to essentialism, to be able to freshen up whatever is essential to us at the time. Mm-hmm. , those things are not gonna be static from year to year or whatever. For sure. And I think that that's just an important practice that everybody should have.

[00:55:28] Tali: Like, you know, one issue that I had taken with people who always knew what they wanted to be growing up. Mm-hmm. , like how can you speak for yourself mm-hmm. that far into the future. Right. And I've heard you say that like Cody doesn't know what he's gonna want five years from now. Yeah. It 

[00:55:45] Cody: took me a long time to figure that out though.

[00:55:47] Cody: Like, I had to get old enough to realize that, oh shit, 20 year old me didn't know shit about what 40 year old wants. , but I didn't know that until I was 40 . Yeah. So I think sometimes you just have to live through that [00:56:00] idea, but it sure has pushed down our throats a lot though in society that, you know, to have yourself figured out is some standard to rise to and be respected that you do, you know what you want out of life, you know where you're going.

[00:56:15] Cody: You have a five year plan, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I 

[00:56:18] Tali: can't believe that's an attractive quality. Yeah. If someone told me that like on a first date, I'd be like, next I'm out. Yeah. So, because that would scare me. That's like, cool. My life's predetermined. I mean, granted people don't really know what that looks like on a day to day, but I don't know.

[00:56:32] Tali: There's something about looking that far into the future that's not based around a feeling. Mm-hmm. or like a state of mind. That's just like very challenging for me. Especially now when it's like who knows what's gonna happen. Yeah. In the future. Yeah. That's out of our control. Just in terms of like, 

[00:56:49] Cody: The world economy and political situations.

[00:56:52] Tali: Yeah. And it's not to just like throw a baby out with the bath water and just be like, well, if I don't know the future, then like, might as well not count on [00:57:00] anything. Yeah. But I mean, I think you had mentioned this in the last podcast, like it was odd to you that I do not picture my future. I just don't think that way.

[00:57:11] Tali: Mm-hmm. , and that has always been a quote unquote fault, but I've just embraced it. It is what it is. You know, if I, if I had been forced to ask myself, like in my early twenties, what I thought I would be doing during that time to be a aspiring professional athlete would've never come up. Oh, right. Yeah. It never would've come up.

[00:57:34] Tali: Mm-hmm. , but that's where I was. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's wild. . 

[00:57:40] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. We are not as good at knowing what future US wants as we think we are, for sure. And I am really trying to get across to people as I'm coaching, to not try like, Hmm, don't try to be good out, trying to figure out what you want 20 years from now, because you're going to [00:58:00] spend a lot of time, we, you know, circling back around to opportunity costs, you know, you're spending a lot of energy and time maybe working on something that you're not even gonna give a shit about 10 years from now.

[00:58:10] Cody: So, yeah, I think thinking a little bit shorter term in many areas now, you know, if you're planning for retirement or you're getting married, you know, they, like, there's some big things like that that, okay, you probably want to think a little bit about what life is gonna be like 10 years from now or whatever.

[00:58:25] Cody: But I think building a practice and a way of thinking in your life, of being curious about the future instead of being so hell bent on controlling it. I think it's a really valuable skill to live more presently and actually enjoy more of your life. So that 20 years from now when you're looking back, you say, well, who knew man?

[00:58:47] Cody: I could never have predicted I'd be here, but man, it was a great ride. Mm-hmm. , you know, but if you're just beating your head against the wall trying to get somewhere over that 20 year period, like whether you get there or not, [00:59:00] you're gonna look back on that 20 years and go, man, that was a lot of fucking work.

[00:59:02] Cody: Like, you better hope you have something to show for it. Mm-hmm. Because I've been on the wrong side of that coin. I've, I've worked really hard for 15 years on a business that went nowhere before the gym. Like I'm, I'm talking ancient history here and yeah. But 

[00:59:16] Tali: don't you think all of that's feeding into even this time around?

[00:59:19] Tali: Yeah, I mean, 

[00:59:19] Cody: I, yeah, of course you can always pull lessons from the past, et cetera, but I'm just saying I did not live presently and it's one of the great regrets of my life. Mm-hmm. , like, I feel like I missed my kids' childhoods. I, you know, I, I missed my. Twenties. Like I didn't experience what it was like to be in my twenties.

[00:59:37] Cody: I didn't I didn't really even start to get fit until I was 30. I didn't even start working out. Like I missed so many opportunities because I was just so hell bent on this financial business goal throughout my twenties that ended up never coming to fruition. But it was so consuming that it took me out of my life.

[00:59:55] Cody: You know? It took me out of my present and sometimes I look back and it's kind of a fog because I [01:00:00] was so mentally removed from that time. I believe little flashes of memories here and there, but it's just not clear. It's almost like it was somebody else's life. 

[01:00:07] Tali: So how does that apply to the 80 20 rule?

[01:00:10] Tali: Just curious. How can you construct 

[01:00:12] Cody: that? Well, you know, I was, I guess one way to think of it is I could have still worked on that same business and those same dreams and, and vision for my life at the time, but maybe tried to break it down into the essential things because I spent a lot of time reading books about business and listening to seminars about business and going to seminars about business and like absorb, absorb, absorb, absorb, absorb.

[01:00:40] Cody: But I wasn't doing some of the essential work to actually make the actual 

[01:00:45] Tali: progress. Yeah. Didn't you say in Amway there were almost like specific steps that you had to take and there were maybe some that you hadn't? Yeah. 

[01:00:55] Cody: So they called it like the eight core steps. Okay. And [01:01:00] it's a really great format.

[01:01:01] Cody: And this isn't a Amway thing. This is a worldwide group thing. They're based outta Spokane. That's why it all came back to me the other day when you and I were in Spokane. I'm like, oh man, this is mm-hmm. bringing back some serious memories. But yeah, one of 'em, You know, one of 'em was listening to seminars, going to the seminars, reading the books that are on the book list, and there was a ton of 'em.

[01:01:19] Cody: So you could never run out mentoring with your, your coach. There's all these things, but one of 'em was actually the, the sort of marketing part, which is talking to people about your business and seeing how you can serve them. Like whether they want to participate in the business with you or become a client or maybe refer you to somebody else, but it was talking and you're, you know, supposed to do that like two or three times a week.

[01:01:45] Cody: That's the one thing that I had the most challenge of being such an introverted person. It's really fucking hard for me to just get out and talk to people about anything. H how do you feel about that now? And so it was like the, the one that's the 80 20 rule [01:02:00] right there, that was the 20% of the thing that would've made the most impact.

[01:02:03] Cody: And it's the one thing I didn't do. And so I wasted a lot of time doing the 80% stuff. 

[01:02:08] Tali: Got it. So how do you feel about that 

[01:02:10] Cody: now? . Thankfully I have overcome a lot of the fears that held me back when it came to that. And so for our business now, I kind of need to do the same thing. Like I need to be reaching out to people and talking about what we're doing.

[01:02:26] Cody: But I have found that there are ways to do that in our business now that can sort of bypass the things that were holding me up because we've hired a coach mm-hmm. , that is going to teach us how to do appropriate marketing to get people to schedule Zoom calls or, you know, cons, consultations with us.

[01:02:49] Cody: So they're coming to us. Whereas in Miami Amway business, it was like you go out and you meet people, you start like small talk, you break the ice enough to be able to get [01:03:00] comfortable enough with them that you can bring up business and then you'd. Basically ask them to sit down and talk with you about your business.

[01:03:06] Cody: Yeah. And I'm like, holy shit, that's hard. Like just face-to-face trying to get out there and like talk to the 

[01:03:10] Tali: world. I've gotta tell you what this is making me think about. So in the early days of Vulcan weightlifting, my coach at the time had decided to have a booth at some sort of Portland wide small business expo thing at the convention center.

[01:03:26] Tali: So there's like hundreds of booths at this place and he takes Nicole and I to this thing and like we're wearing our Vulcan gear and stuff. And I was like, cool. So like, what did you bring? Like are we gonna be. lifting and so people can like watch us. Mm-hmm. . And he was like, no, I have these flyers. I was like, what the fuck?

[01:03:45] Tali: That's it. We had the most boring booth. Yeah. On the planet. Yeah. It was so awful. like, I don't know what he was thinking. Having like absolutely no, no demonstration, no nothing reminds me of Michael Scott. He brings, he, it's [01:04:00] like he, him and Nicole and me. And it's like, not all of those people in that equation are like chatty.

[01:04:09] Tali: Right. Inviting types of people. . And so I remember at one point, so, you know, we had these little flyers to give out and, you know, anything gamified. Or anything competitive to me sparks you. Yes. And so I got rid of all of them. And I actually left the booth to do it. , I went to other booths. You probably have to, to talk to those business owners.

[01:04:32] Tali: That's funny. To get rid of all of them. But yeah, that just came to mind of how silly that event was. We were there for hours too. Yep. I would say the only benefit is like, we had no setup or tear down , so that's like the most, that's the worst part is constructing it and taking it down. So that never ended up happening.

[01:04:51] Tali: But yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. I wonder what networking is gonna be like. I know that's [01:05:00] a skill that I really wanna acquire. Mm-hmm. . Cuz I feel like I can talk to anybody, but in terms of pitching myself mm-hmm. , eh, it's a common issue. It's hard to do. 

[01:05:12] Cody: Yeah. I think it just requires the right frame of mind that you're trying to serve somebody and not get something from them.

[01:05:21] Cody: Yeah. I think that goes a long way, and that's one reason I'm so on fire for our business right now is that I feel like we have something to give that's super valuable. And we may not know what that structure looks like yet, but I know it's there. Like we have something, you and I have something. Yeah.

[01:05:38] Cody: And so I'm eager to share that even though I got nothing to sell right now, 

[01:05:46] Tali: at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. So 

[01:05:49] Cody: I think that's where a little bit of a, the difference is. Yeah. Or a lot of the 

[01:05:53] Tali: difference. Do you have any other notes? Because I think we touched on most of mine. 

[01:05:57] Cody: No, I think that's it. I'm sure that this is [01:06:00] a, a much deeper.

[01:06:02] Cody: Concept as far as how to apply. We, I don't think we got too much into the breeds of like how to apply, 

[01:06:07] Tali: but think. Well, I like the idea of essentialism a lot. Yeah. I think that's just an important word to have at the forefront right now. Especially as you and I are building. Yeah. Something. So, you know, it's, we're prioritizing the right things, not just like what comes naturally, what feels good, what's gonna get the ball rolling.

[01:06:23] Tali: Like what are the things that really require our attention? And I think that that might be the biggest takeaway today from anybody who's listening. Yeah, I think 

[01:06:32] Cody: so. You wanna get the book and read it together? 

[01:06:34] Tali: Yeah, I still have that. You have a few books in the cart? 

[01:06:36] Cody: Mm-hmm. . It's been a long time since we read a book together.

[01:06:39] Cody: I know. 

[01:06:39] Tali: And I think we'll have time now, don't you? Yeah, yeah. Our life is changing. this very weekend. Yes. Your life is changing and it's really exciting. Yeah. 

[01:06:49] Cody: I guess there's an, we, we probably need to do a business update podcast cuz we've only done one published so far. But why don't you do 

[01:06:55] Tali: this one this 

[01:06:55] Cody: week?

[01:06:56] Cody: I'll just or next week. Okay. But I'm just gonna tease it. I mean, I quit my [01:07:00] job last Thursday was the last day I, on my job. Woohoo. And it's Sunday now, so it hasn't sunk in yet until probably about Wednesday. And I realize I'm not at work. It's probably gonna sink in about then, but yeah, we've got some big changes here.

[01:07:13] Cody: Really exciting stuff. Yeah. Thanks for doing it with me doing it together. Mm-hmm. , anything else you want to add, honey? 

[01:07:21] Tali: Well, I know this episode was kind of a grab bag of all sorts of things and I feel like that's partially my fault because of the 80 20 rule, not being, not being on the same page of what that even is.

[01:07:32] Tali: But. 

[01:07:35] Cody: I think you, you teased out some valuable stuff. I mean, I appreciated a lot of what you had to say. 

[01:07:40] Tali: Well, there's a concept of being like, directionally correct. Uhhuh, , which I got that term from my mom. I really like the idea where it's, we're not striving for perfection. We can't even achieve perfection by our own standards all the time.

[01:07:53] Tali: And so having that, that the goal to be at 80% effort mm-hmm. , [01:08:00] you know, that's gonna get you somewhere. Yeah. And I think that that can be a little bit more inviting than feeling like you have to do everything all the time. Yeah. You know, it's easy to, to follow victim to rigidity and really fucking hate it.

[01:08:14] Tali: Yeah. So, it's nice to have some freedom. Like, taking it back to the nutrition thing, like it's nice for me to like give myself something sweet each day cuz then I don't feel deprived. Mm-hmm. , the important, the most important pillar of the program that I work with is that the only. Nutrition plan that's gonna work for you is one that you can adhere to.

[01:08:36] Tali: Yeah. And so for me, I know I need some flexibility. I wanna be able to be able to indulge in things when I want to. And 

[01:08:44] Cody: well, we're really big on not being machine-like, and so, you know, eating that pastry from valleys is human. What 

[01:08:52] Tali: are you talking about? Oh, the donuts on the weekends. . Yeah. Well, you and I only get one and we share it.

[01:08:57] Tali: Yeah. I love that we do that. I always [01:09:00] tell my coach about how you are always willing to split something with me so that I can like, give myself that leeway. Mm-hmm. , but not blow up my day. Yeah. 

[01:09:10] Cody: I do want to, since you brought it back around to nutrition. Yeah. You. , you were talking about essentialism.

[01:09:18] Cody: This is one area where you practice essentialism, but you just didn't Absolutely do. You didn't, you didn't put a label on it, but I've seen you do it with your clients too. You're like, let's start with making sure you get enough protein. Yeah, full stop. 

[01:09:30] Tali: Like that's always my first priority. Yeah, that's what I was saying is how essentialism is.

[01:09:34] Tali: Kind of easily seen in the beginning stages of any program. Of any kind. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:09:40] Cody: And not only beginning stages, but it might be a good way to like bring yourself back around if you're off track. You know, like even a really experienced person. Well, we're doing it right now too in our, I'm doing right 

[01:09:51] Tali: now.

[01:09:51] Tali: This week. Fucking blue for 

[01:09:52] Cody: me. Yeah. And we're also doing it right now in our, in the gym. Like in the last three weeks we've squatted for three weeks in a row. Mm-hmm. and there for a while we were off the [01:10:00] barbell completely. Just exhausted work schedules. Were totally out of balance. Everything's screwed.

[01:10:04] Cody: Yeah. Got 

a 

[01:10:04] Tali: little scary to, to back squat, like Yeah. Just daunting. And 

[01:10:07] Cody: so, but right now I feel like we're doing that. It's like, well we only have 30 minutes. What's one thing that we really should do? Squat. Yeah. We only have 30 minutes. What should we do? Deadlift. So 

[01:10:17] Tali: we're getting, well, that's a big reason why I wanted to bring power lifting back into the mix, like, Yes.

[01:10:24] Tali: A lot of my weightlifting technique is there, but I've lost a lot of strength to be able to push in the way that I want to. Mm-hmm. in weightlifting, and so I have to build those blocks back. Yeah. I have to build that foundational strength back. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:10:41] Cody: Well, folks, we're gonna get the book Essentialism, that that wasn't really gonna be what this podcast was about, but I really feel it's applicable to our continued learning on the subject.

[01:10:51] Cody: So t and I are gonna read it together, and if anyone out there wants to join, let's go ahead and start 

[01:10:58] Tali: something. I'd love that. [01:11:00] Love 

[01:11:00] Cody: me a book club. Maybe by the time this publishes. I'll just add a little addendum to the end of this once we figure it out. But we can either do this in our email newsletter.

[01:11:08] Cody: Let's just do it there. Let's just do it in our email. So if you're not on. Email list. I know that that's the thing every day. It's like you probably get way too much crap, but we only send one out a week and it's actually been a year since we've sent one out. , we're restarting it. But it's gonna keep you up to date on what we're doing.

[01:11:26] Cody: But also podcast episodes and our blog and our ranch life and business updates and all kinds of fun stuff. We really wanna make sure that it's valuable for you. So there's gonna be stuff in the newsletter that isn't on the podcast and whatnot but let's go ahead and start it there. We'll, we'll give you some updates as we read through Essentialism, and all you have to do is hit reply and we get that email.

[01:11:48] Cody: It's not a big robotic thing where it, it, it's not an automated 

[01:11:52] Tali: thing. So yeah, there's real human on the other end. 

[01:11:54] Cody: It's gonna be one of us. Yeah. So all you gotta do is hit replay and, and we can actually converse about the book. So if [01:12:00] you in on that, get yourself a copy, I'll put a link in the description and we'll see you in a week.

[01:12:05] Cody: See 

[01:12:06] Tali: you in a week. Love you. Love you too.

[01:12:11] Tali: This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.