031 Personal Development VS Comparison To Others: Ep 21 of The Philosophy Of Fitness

It's easy to default to comparing ourselves with other people. But how valuable is this, and are there better ways to strive for improvement? Today on Live All Your Life, Tali and Cody bring another episode of The Philosophy Of Fitness where they discuss the pros and cons of comparison, and how we might develop better strategies for personal development both within and outside the world of competition.

00:43 Icebreaker: Favorite Mike Myers Roles ..."I'm a hyper hypo!"

05:41 INTRO: Personal Development VS. Comparison With Others; easy to do in our Instagram World! 

13:14 Unhealthy comparison often stems from a lack of knowledge - it's based on a lot of assumption

18:07 Your environment may not promote you to think about your personal development as yours. Sometimes your surroundings and associations are prompting comparison.

20:17 IFS: Internal Family Systems framing competition in a holistic view is cooperation. Sometimes comparisons can help us to rise to the challenge. 

28:11 In the first week of the Covid shutdowns back in March of 2020, we made a list of intentions as to how we wanted to conduct ourselves. We weren't perfect, but we went into it with intention. Here is what we hoped for:

1. Don't accumulate any more debt.
2. Not burn through savings.
3. Pivot to location-independent income.
4. Learn about sustainability - Be resourceful.
5. LEARN AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
6. Brings family closer together
7. Stay healthy physically/mentally
8. Make decisions we feel good about
9. We remain on the same page - move through it together
10. Be considerate of others

33:40 Your only real competitor is yourself. Be better than yesterday.

43:04 Comparison with others can give you a skewed sense of reality. Firstly, you don't know what advantages or disadvantages they've had. Secondly, your focus can shift from one competitor to another to change your own status for better or worse. Comparison only with yourself helps to eliminate those two illusions. Tali- "There's a big difference between being THE best and being YOUR best and they come with really different experiences and territory.

46:12 Your "competition" could be having the same comparison issues as you. Everybody has their own timeline.

51:27 Actions c

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Transcript

Cody: 0:56

Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.

Tali: 0:58

And I'm Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of Fitness podcast

Cody: 1:02

on the Lyceum network.

Tali: 1:23

Since we're watching the ever relevant Austin Power series this weekend, I thought today's icebreaker could be our favorite. Mike Myers Rolls Go.

Cody: 1:35

That's a tough one for me. I know. Because you have that word favorite in there again. And so it's like, it's gotta be the best one. And I grew up with Mike Meyers, like he was the Saturday Night Live cast that I grew up with in high school. So everybody thinks that like their era of Saturday Night Live was like the only good era. Mm-hmm. And I think it's just because you have to be kind of immature to appreciate for sure. And then it becomes nostalgic later on. Yes. Because they don't really, it's not that great. But

Tali: 2:08

I mean that's definitely the experience watching Austin Powers again, I remember being in like elementary, middle school age at the time when those came out and they were the funniest things ever. And now it's really fucking cringey. Yeah. But moments

Cody: 2:22

are funny. Moments are funny. Wayne's world, not the movies, but the actual skits of Wayne's world. On Saturday Night Live, it's probably my, my most nostalgic Mike

Tali: 2:35

Myers. Do you have a favorite anything? Can you connect? You're my favorite person.

Cody: 2:39

You're my favorite person, honey Okay.

Tali: 2:42

All right. I'll take it. But why? Why the resistance of something favorite favorites can change. That's okay. Okay.

Cody: 2:50

So, well, I was gonna say Shrek because those movies do hold up. Well, they're hilarious. They do, they're still funny to this day. So I would say favorite Mike Myers's role would be Shrek. Okay. I would say an honorable mention of how I married an ax murderer, though. And the only reason I bring it up is because it's one of his lesser known roles. And I think that movie's hilarious and I think it's charming and just kind of a fun movie. So how I mar. Is that

Tali: 3:20

what it's called? How I, how I married an ex Murder? Yeah. Yeah. When we watched that movie, at first I was like not sold on it at all. But I look back on it really fondly. Yeah.

Cody: 3:31

I think it's a rewatch kind of movie. I think so too because I've watched it many times with friends and like with family members and stuff and I think that's probably why I like it so much is that it's one of those movies that kind of sinks in and you kind of feel like you get to know the characters more. Mm-hmm. every time you watch it. Yeah. What's your

Tali: 3:48

favorite? My favorite? Your absolute favorite? Well, I have a couple of comments on the ones that you mentioned. So, Wayne's World, I actually did see the movies first. Yeah. I really only saw the skits once I met you, cuz I didn't know that that's where it came from. Yeah. So now I'm kind of, I've become kind of skeptical of like any person who has been in the cast of Saturday Night Live, if their movies are previous characters from the show, which. I think they're so brilliant that some of them spun off that way. Yeah. A favorite Mike Myers role? This one I'm willing to go as far to say it's my favorite because of your impression of it. Does that ring a bell? My impression of

Cody: 4:34

it? Yes. Of, of Mike Myers? Yes. Oh, I don't, no.

Tali: 4:40

Sorry. Hyper hypo. Oh yeah. I love that skit so much. I love this skit so much. We'll put a link of it on the show notes, but. I had not seen this Saturday Night Live skit. It's, I think with Nicole Kidman. Is that right? Yes. Yep. And they're playing these little kids on a playground, and I hadn't seen it until not that long ago, but Cody has referenced this millions of times since we've been together, and I always find it hilarious. Can you please? It is really funny. Can you please give us the impression?

Cody: 5:16

So Nicole Kidman asks him if he wants some chocolate, and he says, I'm not allowed to because on the account of I'm a hyper hypo I'm a hypochondriac and a hyperactive. I think that's what he says. Anyway, it goes on. And she offers him again and he's like, you are the devil.

Tali: 5:39

I love it so much because it makes me laugh like that. Okay. Yeah, so I think that wraps up our ice break for today. My face hurts really bad from laughing, but today we're gonna, you're

Cody: 5:50

pretty, I know.

Tali: 5:51

Today we're gonna be talking about personal development versus competition with others. And it's really easy, I think, when you are entering the world of personal development that you naturally start to compare yourself to other people's work. And, you know, this is very relevant to weightlifting and gym life, but I've also seen it in our other pursuits, like, you know, the stats when you talk about your book and our podcast, and this is what everybody else was able to achieve. And I just think that that's such a easy, slippery slope to. Embark on and I just want to talk about our experiences and how we can maybe mitigate that moving forward cuz it's so not helpful. Their comparison is helpful in some ways, but not that way.

Cody: 6:36

Yeah. And it's an epi epidemic in of sorts because of our social media world. Everybody's putting their, their best stuff out there. Some people to the point of absurdity, you know, like, they like really, I, I saw a meme the other day that was kind of funny because it, it's also kind of sad, like cringey funny, that kind of funny. Hey and it was on a parenting meme page that I follow and it was like, you know, I see. I see moms talking to their kids, like, shut the hell up and sit down and don't say anything and blah, blah, blah. And then they post on social media. This is my reason for breathing You know? And it's as in this

Tali: 7:16

one person is posting both. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's

Cody: 7:20

confusing. No, I mean that, but that, I've seen that too. I've, I've witnessed that in person, like people who don't treat their children well at all on a daily basis, and then they make social media posts about how much they just adore their, their beautiful children.

Tali: 7:34

And it's like, I mean, that shit happens in real life. I think I told you yes. Somebody came into the shop the other day and their kids were like destroying the place. And like from across the room, as she's like perusing for herself, she's like, Hey, kids, like please pick up after yourselves. Cooperate and try to be really like flowery about it. And then when she went over there to talk to them, like, woo, a switch flipped. And it was really oh, it really took me back to being a kid and like what being scolded sounded like. Yeah. And that all happened in a span of like 10 minutes. Yeah. But yeah, you could tell that there was like a front being put on. Or maybe her le like her leash was much longer her temper. Hadn't really been sparked yet. But yeah. Really different methods were displayed. Yeah.

Cody: 8:18

Once, yeah. That's just an example of what we see on social media though, is that people wanna put. their ideal self online, which is understandable. Yeah. But over when you see that over the course of populations of millions and millions of people who are on social media starts to skew reality a bit. I don't know that it's, you know, necessarily a fault of people being on there. It's just, it's a natural tendency of course, to always, yeah. Put your best out there and then but then it skews everything for everyone else. For us watching it, it's like, well, man, I don't like you were saying like, man, I, I write about the same things that Greg McEwen and, and James Clear and James Altucher and you know, I, I can list 10 authors who write about very similar topics to mine, who are like millionaire authors and I've sold like me 15 copies of my book maybe. Yeah. And so it's difficult to. Not compare when when things are pushed at you all the time like that.

Tali: 9:23

Well, the thing about social media that we know and forget is that we're not getting the whole story. And that's the danger I think, of living your life online. And that's why I'm always wanting to spend time with people in person. Mm-hmm. or have real conversations because what I'm getting online gives me a really skewed idea of what their life is like. And like you said, it's just really easy to compare thinking that every circumstance or point of view is gonna be on an even playing field. And when you talk to people in real life, you learn so much more about like what it actually took to get there or what their faults are. Remind them that remind you that they are human. Yeah.

Cody: 10:03

Yeah. It reminds of me of our conversation yesterday with a couple that we met for coffee. Yes. And there was like some vulnerable moments and like talking about things that were. that they wanted to change and struggles that they're having and things like that. And it was really cool cuz it was, it was casual and, and open and authentic.

Tali: 10:21

And isn't that cool that, that's like a common theme with the friends that you and I are making lately as a couple? Yeah, well

Cody: 10:28

I think it's, we walk that and so we do, you know, we're inviting it. You attract, similar to the way you act, I think.

Tali: 10:36

Well, you know what's funny is I always used to be really critical of myself, especially in high school when friends, like I'd be hanging out friends one-on-one and we would always get really deep in the weeds and I'm sure that they really appreciated that. Cuz it wasn't like every, you know, having to put up a front or to be cool or whatever. I'm trying to, I'm thinking about a particular friend that I had, her name was Anna. She was like, really excitable, had a ton of friends. Everybody wanted Anna to come over. Like, she was just a great energy. And every time I would go to her house we would have like really deep conversations or do like yoga and shit like that, or stretch and or like go for walks, like really healthy things. And I was like, gosh, I must be that really boring friend who like is not the life of the party. Like everybody knows when they hang out with me, it's gonna be like really heavy or really serious. And so I used to be really critical of myself, but I think it's my superpower truthfully. Absolutely. Like that people can be open with me in the way that they are.

Cody: 11:40

I mean, that's how you captured me. Absolutely. Like right off the bat. because you don't run into that kind of authenticity and willingness to go into real conversation very often in, out in the world.

Tali: 11:52

It can feel like a handicap sometimes though. Like, that's the only place I know how to go And if you can't hang with it, then it's really hard to hang with me. Yeah. But I think that's great. I know, I mean, I think it is now, but I just think of what that was like as a young person. It really wasn't cool. Yeah. But, but I also, I, I think that I'm much better with people one-on-one, but I'm also excited that it's feeling more like I'm doing, I'm feeling that same way too on two when it's you and me as a couple. And like that's the kind of that's the kind of company that you and I are attracting. Really exciting to me, cuz it seems like we've been exercising that a lot lately. Yeah. Not only with our business, but just our personal life too. Yeah.

Cody: 12:35

Well those two things are intertwined, inseparable, I think. Yeah. Our business and

Tali: 12:40

personal life. I don't think you, and I know how to separate the two and I love it. Yeah.

Cody: 12:44

The idea that social media is people's sort of best foot forward, or maybe even a facade, kind of reminds me of something that's closely related to today's topic, which is competition. That was in one of the, the highlighted notes here, is that mm-hmm. competition can bring out comparison in an unhealthy way. Yeah. And it's interesting because, the analogy I was just thinking of in my mind is people are also doing that at competition time, right? When you show up for competition, you are presenting yourself a certain way. Ah, yes. That may not be really your day-to-day. Right? You know, there are people who you, you don't see the struggles of their training, their ups and downs, their injuries, their, their flakiness. Like every once in a while, you know, people are human and they may not be as disciplined as they're presenting when it's showtime. And so you show up on game day and o you know, obviously if the things are too inconsistent, that may affect your performance. And it'll show, and you can't hide that. But at the same time,

Tali: 13:51

I was gonna say, if you have a trained eye, like you'll be able to see a lot of those

Cody: 13:54

nuances. Yeah. But I guess my point is, is that we don't know the struggle that people are going through to get to where they're at. We just see game day when it's a competition situation. Mm-hmm. So I think sometimes that unhealthy comparison can also be present with people who, for instance, might have advantages over you. So you show you, you see them come up to game day and they're just like intimidating and you're comparing yourself to them, but you don't realize that they've had a whole bunch of advantages that you did not have. Whether that's chemical enhancement, or, or just avail happens or availability, or. Time support community, you know, like, there's just so many things. Well, you can do your research Yeah. But I guess my point is, is that the unhealthy type of comparison I think often stems from a lack of familiarity. Like, the less familiar we are with somebody, the easier it is to compare ourselves in an unhealthy way. I just realized,

Tali: 14:58

should we turn the

Cody: 14:59

heater off? I think we recorded with it last time and it was all right. Okay. It's cold. It's, so it was three degrees last night, folks. Yeah,

Tali: 15:05

three I Yeah. I wasn't sure if it, the microphone would pick it up or not, but it's, it's pretty quiet. You know, you were talk, I had mentioned research and it just reminded me of the third, second, third time I competed at state. You know, you get a start list. a week out, two weeks out, maybe from any competition. So you can see, you know, who's filling out your weight class, who you're up against. And there were a bunch of names that I did not recognize, and we all had very similar entry totals. Mm-hmm. And you have to submit an entry total to qualify for meets. And that's where you take your best scores that have been achieved on the platform in a sanctioned meet. And you combine those scores for a total. And that is what you can submit if, you know, the, the high level competition requires, like your entry total has to be over 160 kilos combined or something. And that's how you know that you qualify. And so anyway, there are a handful of girls who were in my weight class that all had. similar entry totals and I didn't know who they were. And really feverishly the weeks leading up, I tried to find them online and like watch their videos, see what their numbers were like, how consistent are they? But like you said, when it's all online, you only get the best. So

Cody: 16:32

I remember that. I remember here you like Instagram stalking your competition.

Tali: 16:36

Yeah. And one of them has actually turned out to be a good friend of mine. She lives out here in La Grande, which is really cool. Cuz that's very close to where we live. I've been meaning to meet up with her. But yeah, we've been in kind of the competitive circuit with each other for a long time now. And that weight class in that particular year was super stacked. Mm-hmm. like it was really, really close. And I think even though I was a little obsessive at that time, to kind of know what my footing was amongst them. I think at that point I was so seasoned as a competitor that I didn't pay attention to what other people were doing. You know, the great setup about a weightlifting meat generally is that there is a back room where everybody's warming up and then there's a wall, some kind of partition between the, that back room and the platform and the audience. And so a lot of times you don't know what's happening out there on the competition floor. Mm-hmm. or when you're on the competition floor, like you've got work to do, so you're not thinking about what's happening in the back room. So a lot of times the results of the meat, unless it becomes like very neck and neck and there are still only like two or three lifters standing you. easily have no idea what's going on out there, And that's why I have so much beef with all the new setups at the national meets where everything's all open. I feel like you're really fucking with competitors that way in being able to focus on themselves. Mm-hmm. And I know a lot of it, I think just has to do with not having the adequate space and they're trying to accommodate so many lifters. So instead of three platforms, they're like five. And so they have to have an audience, they have to have a back room for each one. And it's a nightmare for coaches because sometimes they'll have multiple lifters on different platforms and they're gonna have to run back and forth or, yeah. Or at the same

Cody: 18:29

time

Tali: 18:30

it's fucking crazy. I think it's terrible and I feel so bad for everybody who's in that competition circuit right now as the American Open Finals are happening. I forget where, but I know that they have a very similar setup this year. And I had a, I had a note that was, That not every arena, whether it's a professional arena, sports arena, personal arena, like values in your family or whatever, don't necessarily set you up for success to stay in your own lane or to think about your personal development as yours. Sometimes the partitions are taken off. Sometimes the comparisons are being, you know, blatantly made. Why aren't you more like your sister kind of thing. Mm-hmm. like almost encouraging you to compare yourself to others, which can really, you know, screw up your focus. It can really take you down a dark path if you let it.

Cody: 19:24

Yeah. I think it's natural tendency to compare, because that's something that humans do. We always categorize everything like, yeah. I don't know. It's something about the way our brain works is that we want to try to create these categories of everything, whether it's something in nature or. You know, that's kind of how science works is that we isolate and compare and contrast mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and we draw all these lines between things and some of that I wonder too about it being a cultural issue speaking a little ignorant here, ignorantly. But it seems to me, from what I know of some of the, especially the more ancient philosophies of eastern culture is that rather than think of the world as a whole bunch of competiting competitive categories, their whole philosophy and way of thinking is that everything is sort of one hole and everything is a part of that hole. Yes. It's, it's one thing to be able to articulate that, but it's another thing for your mind to actually work that way. Because when you're acculturated in that philosophy, your brain literally develops differently to think of things in a very different way from a visceral, emotional, you know, deep rooted response to things as being cohesive. Mm-hmm. and cooperative rather than competitive and have all these delineations between things like we, we tend to think of things well

Tali: 20:57

invaluable in their own right. Do you remember listening to my conversation with my mom yesterday? I was really hoping it would work its way into whatever topic we were gonna discuss today. And it did, and I'm so excited. she was talking about some work that she's been doing personally that has been assess. Parts of her

Cody: 21:14

ifs. Internal family systems,

Tali: 21:16

yes. But she was talking more specifically about herself and the different parts of herself, the task manager, and then the rebel, and how that, how they are seemingly competitive with one another and sabotaging the other. And a big part of the practice is to eliminate assigning value to either one of them as like your task manager being the good girl and your rebel being the bad girl. And recognizing that they are there to support each other. Like you cannot have one without the other. And that's all wrapped up in the conversation of, you know, feeling guilt when I'm not getting enough work done. And then, you know, getting on such a role with work that you let everything else in your life become neglected and how difficult that balance is. We all deal with that to some degree. And it's really easy to think of it as a dichotomy, devil and angel on your shoulder, but. I think what's really important in this particular conversation is that we have to assign value to each one of those things independently and not see them as like competitive components. Mm-hmm. and how all those parts of ourselves are good. And same thing when it comes to competition. Like, you know, like you said, comparing ourselves to others is inherent. It's so hard to avoid. But developing personally, I think is what allows you to really see yourself for who you are and love it and appreciate it. Yeah. And you know, competition will come up, but as long as you feel like you're firm in your own value, then so, so what? Mm-hmm. that stuff doesn't end up mattering. Anymore.

Cody: 23:01

Yeah. Well, you had talked about assigning value independently, but you could also think of it as assigning value cohesively to those various parts of yourself. That, you know, in the case of say the task master and the the rebel is that they're taking care of each other. Yeah. You know, the rebel is taking care of the task master because the rebel understands that there's a balance and rest that's necessary in order to be effective. Yeah. So they're helping the task master be more effective, if you think of it that way. And the task. And likewise, the task master recognizes that if everything is just what you want to do all the time at any moment, then you could fall into a pit of despair and depression because you stay in bed all day. Right. And so, in a way, there, it's a loving act. It's not, it's not an antagonistic viewpoint of these two parts of yourself. It's more like various forms of yourself. offering kindness, you know?

Tali: 23:59

Yeah. This reminds me of two different things. One, my favorite, one of my favorite movies, I'd say it's top five for sure. But I love The Dark Knight. Mm-hmm. with the Joker played fr as, what's his name? Heath Ledger. Mm-hmm. Anyway, there's a point in the movie where he tells Batman, like, you complete me You know, like he, they play off of each other and need each other to be their best. Mm-hmm. And I think about that also in the same way that I think about my teammate Nicole, who we had a really challenging relationship. And just last week when you and I recorded, we talked about how our anniversary week is coming up and that we went to Cova Coffee and I touched your arm and it was a big deal in the start of our relationship. But I remember the conversation that we were having, which was about Nicole. Yeah. And I'm not not sure how it came up, but I remember telling you that, you know, I feel really challenged by her all the time, but I need her in a way, or I need to learn to appreciate her because she is allowing me to do my best work by essentially trying to do the opposite of everything that she was doing. Mm-hmm. But still, like I almost needed that rift with her in order to be the kind of lifter and teammate that I was mm-hmm. because she gave me like that tension or that thing to push back, to act a certain way to be like generous and poised and dedicated, like, you know, she had a lot of good qualities too, but I had to learn to appreciate that challenge or that tension between us. Yeah. And it was most definitely competition. Like, you know, we were always fighting for coaches time and wanting to be top dog in the gym. And I mean, who knows if it was just handed to me, maybe I wouldn't have risen to the occasion that I did or reached the heights that I did mm-hmm. in that time. So,

Cody: 26:11

but you used that fuel?

Tali: 26:13

Yes. Yeah, because it was there, you know, if she wasn't there then, you know, it'd be silly to like, create. that sort of, I don't know if I'd be able to like replicate that, you know, but mm-hmm. like you said, everything is connected to each other and she was a part of my training environment. I had to embrace that. Mm-hmm. And of course there were many times where I didn't, where I like, would come home like crying about it or, you know, we had mediated conversations where we were pretty frank about how we just did not like each other. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I think, I think she knows that. I think she knows that like we needed each other. I don't know if I did anything for her. I would really love to find out. But I hope I did. but not everybody takes that opportunity. Like that's the whole point of today is like you can take that opportunity.

Cody: 27:01

Yes. And that's what I was gonna say is that you're, in a way you're reframing, which doesn't mean you're being dishonest, but you're just reframing the situation because you could also look at it as a real negative situation. Like there was a lot of, well fucking was, there's a lot of stress involved. And there were, there were times when you expressed shame in the way that you were feeling about things or the way that you were handling things, which I did not see. Reasons to be shame shameful about. I,

Tali: 27:33

well, I want other people's bad attitudes to bring me to their level. Yeah. And when I see that I do, I'm really hard on myself because I think it's important to always take the high road or be the bigger person if you have the energy for it. Mm-hmm. And when I don't have the energy for it and I succumb to new lows or whatever, it's. Well, I'm feeling really bad about it.

Cody: 27:56

I think you're overly hard on yourself in that regard, but I think it's a interesting way of reframing it though, because you are right on both accounts, like Yeah. Was a challenge and in such a way that it could have been an impediment to your progress at the time.

Tali: 28:17

It was at a point.

Cody: 28:18

But at the same time, you can also look at that same symbiosis that you were just talking about of how you used that to better yourself and to be an example of like, that's not how I want to conduct myself. And so let's go the extra mile to conduct myself how I would want to, you know, if I had a, a mentor in the gym that was presenting themselves, this is what I would hope to see. And so you kind of became your own your your own mentor to follow

Tali: 28:51

in that way. Yeah. Well that's what's so important I think, about developing your own values, especially when it comes to a pursuit. You know, when Cody and I were anticipating losing our jobs just before covid hit and everything went shit I had actually already lost my job at that point. You hadn't yet. But we wrote out a list of ways that we hoped to conduct ourselves and we wrote, wrote a list of like 10 different things and maybe we'll put that in the show notes too, cuz it's on our fridge. And interestingly it wasn't like super specific to Covid cuz everything was super vague at that point in life. But we just knew that we wanted to conduct ourselves with a lot of flexibility, understanding of other people's experiences. Do you remember what else roughly

Cody: 29:39

To. continue to stay connected with our relationship Yeah. With each other, but also our families. Yeah. Because even in the first week of the whole Covid announcement, all, you know, this diviv political division, shit was starting to stir whether, whether there should be closures or whether there should not be closures like that was already a debate before it even happened. And so I remember one of the things we put on there is that we wanted to try to, to not let that interfere come between us and our

Tali: 30:16

families. Yeah. So anyway, the reason I bring it up is that you and I preemptively. Had a code of conduct for ourselves and how we wanted to move through this experience. And I don't know how well we kept with that, cuz it was, you know, a couple of years of a lot of strain and not seeing our families and everybody disagreeing as to why we're not seeing each other. And

Cody: 30:40

Yeah. And, and that's a tough thing about putting responsibility on yourself to maintain relationships is that they also have to want that Yeah. So sometimes there's like rifts that happen that you have no ab absolutely no control over, you know? But what I

Tali: 30:52

mean to say is that in weightlifting and on my team, I had like a certain code of conduct that I held myself to. And I think that in any of our pursuits, that might be a really important thing to make some decisions on early on. Like, who do I wanna be in this realm? Mm-hmm. Because like you said, with competition or comparison, like it just can. Take you over. It can be a dark road if you let it. And that all can just come about. So automatically like entering a room with people like, or, you know, getting my blood drawn the other day, like, it's amazing how that anxiety just takes over my body and I don't even realize it's happening. And so I just think it's important, like if you develop your values enough to a point where you feel like you can really execute and practice them and you believe in them, and of course they can ebb and flow, but if you can always act from that place, I think it can allow you to be less susceptible to like the negative parts of competition because there are some really valuable parts. Mm-hmm. or valuable elements and characteristics of competition. But I think in general, when people hear the word competition, they take it. As a negative thing.

Cody: 32:10

Yeah. Well, and within the realm of competition, even if it is with an opponent like say boxing or something like that, or a team sport or, or weightlifting or whatever that is there are plenty of examples of really high level athletes who have had the mindset of my competition is not my opponent, my competition is me.

Tali: 32:33

Guess who comes to mind? Who? Rocky. Yeah. I love Rocky so much. and I didn't think that I would, I thought it was gonna be a super bro movie, and turns out it's like one of my favorite movie series. I made a distinction there. I don't remember what he says, but I remember him. acknowledging something at the end of the first movie, like at the end of the fight. Mm-hmm. and saying something to Apollo Creed. Do you remember what it is?

Cody: 33:01

Man? I should, because I've grown up with those movies and watched him so many times, but I forget. But I do know that, you know, spoiler alert, he does not win No. In the first movie. No.

Tali: 33:11

Which I think is, ugh, what a move to make. But

Cody: 33:13

the whole idea is that. he went the distance.

Tali: 33:17

Right? He made it to the

Cody: 33:18

last round. Yeah. He, he kept getting up, he kept trying. He kept trying. No matter what, even when he was losing, he kept trying. Right.

Tali: 33:26

And I can't remember at the end if he either acknowledged that he like made it to the end, or if he essentially said like, good game. Mm-hmm. or like, you're one hell of a competitor to be up against. Like the sentiment was somewhere in there. And I just remember remembering, thinking like, wow, what a great sport. Like especially in a you know, in weightlifting, your opponent, like you never see them like they are, they're totally on their own, on the platform by themselves. It's really a solo sport. Yeah. You still have competitors, but none of them are punching you in the face. Right. And to be thoughtful of that, to the point where someone is like physically harming you is crazy to me. that's another reason that I love that movie so much. Yeah. It's like such an extreme. Example of getting knocked down and getting back up. Yeah. And doing it with poise and tenacity and man, I love him. Mm-hmm.

Cody: 34:21

there's you know, later in that series, Apollo actually says what I was just talking about. He's like, in, you know, in this life you don't have to prove nothing to nobody except yourself. And he is like, look in. He's making rocky, like, look in the mirror. Cuz he's like, that's your opponent. You know, like, th that is who you are fighting against, is that person you're looking at

Tali: 34:42

in the mirror. Has anyone ever said that to you explicitly?

Cody: 34:45

No, but I've known it somehow myself. I mean, I, I still fall in the trap of comparing myself to others, but it seems like that almost always just turns around and, and is pointed. Back at myself like, well, I could be doing this better or I could be doing that better. I don't, and sorry, I don't know that it's always in a healthy way though. Because one thing I wanted to bring up is, you know, a motto that we had in my gym and a lot of CrossFit gyms took up this same flag, if you will, is better than yesterday. And the idea of better than yesterday is that you come into the gym and you're trying to put in effort to be better than you were yesterday. Not better than somebody else in the gym that day. And that's why, you know, there was, it's interesting because in CrossFit gyms there's a leaderboard, like the people who did the best that day at that particular right timed event or strength event or whatever it. and that friendly competition can really drive people to levels where they would not go normally. And that's one of the effective aspects of a CrossFit,

Tali: 35:57

Jim. Yeah. Well we did an episode on this that you can't live your life in a vacuum. Yeah. You have to have some sort of idea of the height that you can Yeah. Raise to, and a

Cody: 36:09

lot, for a lot of people, it pushes them to levels they didn't even know they could do on their own. Yeah. However, it's at the same time, I don't think it's a conflict to say that, yes, the leaderboard can motivate you, but you really should be tracking your workouts to compare to yourself, your past self. And I Did you get the, it's like maybe you came in 20th in the gym that day. you took two minutes off of your score from the last time you did that workout six months ago. Yeah. So that, that is the win. Like you just won because you beat yourself

Tali: 36:44

from six months ago. Yeah. I think that's really hard to manage when you're training with somebody, especially like on the same bar. If you see that person lifting more than you or, you know, taking a big jump. Mm-hmm. you too can take a big jump, but it has to be based on your numbers, not theirs. Yeah. And it's so easy when you're sharing a borrower with somebody. Just I do it with you. I do it with you a lot. Like I remember we did deadlifting together in a hotel recently. Mm-hmm. And then we came home and I did the exact same thing. Cody and I had shared a bar for a deadlifting workout one day, and it was early in the morning, so I wasn't feeling like particularly motivated to unload and reload the bar with weights that might have been more appropriate for me. I just lifted everything you did, which. physically I could do, but maybe I shouldn't have. Like, everything ended up fine. I didn't hurt myself or feel excessively sore or anything. But I just think that's a good example of like how close and how easily or how fine that line is. Mm-hmm. from like being on your own path and then dipping into somebody else's.

Cody: 37:55

Yeah, and that's a funny example too because I never, I don't feel competitive with you. I don't know if you do. I do. Cuz you sometimes you get there easily. You get there more easily than I do as far as being competitive. Mm-hmm. I've never been competitive with you. But having said that, I do sometimes have an expectation of myself that whatever you're doing, I should just be able to do. Which is kind of funny because

Tali: 38:22

that's, that sounds competitive to me.

Cody: 38:25

Yeah. but it's not in a, in a, an attitude of wanting to beat you. Mm-hmm. to me, that's what competitive means. Like, I wanna beat you like I want to do more than you. You know, and that's not the case. It's just, it's more of like a reflection of how I feel about myself is that, well I should be able to do this Hmm. And there's a weird should there because it's like, why, because you're a dude. Because that's fucking ridiculous. She's out. You have out trained me in hours, probably like three to one given my whole lifetime. I'm 16 years older than you and you've still probably trained three times more than I have.

Tali: 39:00

Oh, thanks

Cody: 39:01

So it's ridiculous for me to always assume that I should just be able to move the same weight that you are. Well, that's

Tali: 39:07

kind of the, I mean, I also have another slippery slope example where we had to do, I think it was overhead squats for reps, which anything for reps I fucking hate. Is this in Baker? No, this was in weightlifting. Oh. Very unusual stretch of programming, I guess, cuz it was such a rarity that we would do things like this. But yeah, I didn't see you do overhead squats a lot actually. It would be, yeah. That's probably why I'm so bad at them. But we had to do overhead squats for reps and I think I, I went first and I did like seven reps at like maybe 110 pounds or something. It was supposed to be pretty light. And then Nicole, the same teammate, she does 10. And so kind of in the same way that you had just said, reflecting on training with me, that anything I do, you should be able to do. That same kind of thought, like triggered to me when Nicole had hit 10 and I was like, cool, I'm gonna go do it again. And I did 11 such an asshole move. But I think this example is interesting because yes, she pushed me to do more work, which is the great part of having competition is that it propels you to new lengths that you didn't think you could reach. Mm-hmm. or that maybe you didn't care to reach. But at the same time, like I also won, upped her for the sake of one upping her which is kind of a dick move, So I had my moments. I totally had my moments. Yeah. But like I said, that, that chase for top Dog was not something that I just like happened to find myself in. I wanted it too. Mm-hmm. I just happened to have an advantage over her, so I had kind of a. more of a lax attitude around it because my margin, like we had a pretty healthy margin between us and I knew that she wouldn't catch up to me. Mm-hmm. you know, for a lot of those lifts, you know, maybe not for reps, but for weight to be able to put weight on a snatch or a clean and jerk, it's not a linear experience. It takes fucking forever to just put like five to 10 kilos on one of those. Yeah. It takes a lot of work. Yeah. So I knew that I was in a pretty comfortable place and that's why when the whole steroid thing happened, that's why I started to really fucking unravel, you know, because that margin closed really rapidly, seemingly out of nowhere. And then I did, it did become a climb for top dog. Mm-hmm. and I was starting to slip behind and didn't understand why. And that's because she had a shortcut on one side and I didn't Yep.

Cody: 41:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Tali: 41:49

I'm trying to talk about it more matter-of-factly, cuz I don't feel emotionally charged by it anymore. Yeah, that's good. And I actually talked to one of my clients about it earlier this week who is on a basketball team and was talking a lot about how there's kind of a facade with basketball being a team sport, but it's really not They're all incredibly competitive with each other. Mm-hmm. too. And I can understand that in a sport where like maybe injury rates are really high or you have to have a lot of stamina, it makes sense to have a really large team, but only like a few people actually playing. Yeah. But what a fucked up dynamic that can make. Yeah. For the people who are sitting on the bench and the people who are on the floor, as much as like you wanna push the team and the team being the most important thing, it's creating an environment where those people are really competitive with each other. pretty mean to each other too. Yeah. We're talking about girls high school basketball here. You know, where this is even like pro stuff, but to think about how that might be a part of the basketball culture is

Cody: 42:53

wild. Well, I was just thinking about that in the, and I would have a suspicion that you don't get to the pro level if you are competitive with your own teammates. I feel like

Tali: 43:04

for the, you don't think Shaq and Kobe were competitive with each other? I

Cody: 43:07

think that if you're on the same team, you have to put the team above your own selfish desire to outperform your teammate

Tali: 43:17

in a way. But sometimes two people are fighting for the same spot. Yeah. And there's all these issues with like seniority and who's deserving and whatever. Yeah, I get that. And I just told her, I was like, your coach is gonna do whatever is gonna allow you guys to win basketball games. They cannot take that personally. Right. That's a cue to them that they need to do something more. Yeah. And it's not your fault that you have the spot. Yeah. All right. I mean, it is, you've done the work to get there, but like you should revel in it. You should not feel guilty about it.

Cody: 43:44

Well, it kind of reminds me of that cheer show that you were watching Cheer.

Tali: 43:48

Oh man, that show was so good. Yeah. Uh, What did it make you think of? Well,

Cody: 43:51

cuz that was the same thing, you know, it's like, there's only so many spots for this competition and we're talking about Oh

Tali: 43:57

yeah. Like 20 people out of 40 or

Cody: 43:59

something. Yeah. And those 40 are all badass. Like all, all 40 of those people can do shit that most humans just can't do. Right. And so to get squeezed out of a situation like that was heartbreaking for some of those kids who, I say kids, but, you know, like 20 year olds or whatever. But yeah, I mean to, in, in a college situation too. That's a really interesting, because this is another dynamic I didn't think about until just now on topic, which is being a big fish in a little pond. Okay. you know that that term means like, okay, if you're going to a small high school and you are the star athlete, you could be like way, way, way more advanced than everyone around you. And you kind of get used to that spot and then you go to a division one, you know, team situation in college and all of a sudden you're not the big fish in the little pond anymore. Scary. You got a lot of other big fish who came from other ponds and you're middle of the pack maybe. You know? And it's all that's gonna take some huge adjustment. Yeah. It sounds disorienting. If hell if, yeah. If you're worth, if you're, if your value was in comparison, then you're gonna have a rough fucking time of it. Yes. But if your value was like, I'm doing the best I can, then I think you'll have an easier go because you're still performing as good or better than you were in high school. And if you're comparing to yourself, you can see that progress. But if you're comparing. Two other all stars from all over the country, then it becomes a very different

Tali: 45:34

story. Yeah. There's a big difference between the best and being your best. Yeah. And they come with really different experiences and territory.

Cody: 45:45

It's funny because I hear this talked about in business sometimes, but I've never had that inclination in business. Like I,

Tali: 45:54

it would totally apply,

Cody: 45:56

but I don't think it is in the same way because if, if my business is successful to the degree that I want it to be, then I don't care if there's 10 other competitors who are also successful. I think that's great.

Tali: 46:08

But don't you think you're mistakenly trying to do what other people are doing to get to your best without it coming from an internal. Drive.

Cody: 46:20

Not necessarily because for me, a lot of my business success is based on the lifestyle that I want. And so if I can achieve that lifestyle, then I don't really care if other people are doing more or better

Tali: 46:31

or faster you and I are, or whatever. You are working with people who I think their values are just in line with what you want. Mm-hmm. in terms of even what their company name is, money up, time down. Like they want you to make more money so that you can have more time in your life to live it. And so think about how long it's taken you in your career to find this. Yeah. And I just think about how, you know, everyone's path is gonna be incredibly unique and I'm gonna go ahead and venture that A lot of the authors that you mentioned before have had the same thoughts of like, well, why is this so hard for me? Perhaps I, I'll bet on it. You know, my mom, she was really. Supportive of me as a young person. I felt like I struggled in school a lot and I, I can't think exactly what else this might have been attributed to, but she would always tell me like, you know, everything's gonna happen in your own time. You just have to like, have faith in that. And it's hard for me to think about what she was talking about because, you know, I was like the first of my friends to get my license. And, you know, I had a boyfriend at a young age. Like, there were things that I didn't necessarily feel like I was missing out on other than academics. I felt like academics were always really challenging for me and that I felt like I was behind. Which is wild to think about because, you know, being this far out from school, I look back and I'm like, damn, that shit was so easy. I just did not care to do it. Yeah. But it gave me the impression that I was like slow or gave me the impression that I was not like everybody else. And so I just remember being told that all the time that you know, everything in our lives is gonna happen on their own timeline. And that's kind of the mistake that school can have is that we're all kind of moving from one grade to the next. Like you've mentioned how when you were held back, when you went from one school to the next and how your credits didn't transfer or whatever, like could have set you up for your whole fucking life to feel inadequate, which is a systemic thing. It's not a you thing. Yeah. I mean, and that's why I asked if anyone explicitly had ever told you like that you are your own competition. Because I think if you are told that like Wow, how alleviating that would be. Yeah. That like whatever the fucking noises or what everyone else is doing around me is irrelevant to me. Mm-hmm. how powerful would that be? but we don't grow up thinking that way. We grow up thinking that we are supposed to be doing what everyone else does. Yeah. And that's what fascinates me about your kids a lot, but also makes me nervous for them at times, because I've been indoctrinated to feel that way. Yeah.

Cody: 49:09

You know? Yeah. I was thinking of that just now in reference to Eastern culture and I think that there's, I don't know if it's because of western industrialization or whatever, but there's, there obviously is a massive pressure in eastern cultures to like be the best, be better, be better than other people like. Excel in school, Excel, you know, it, there's this massive pressure and I think that schooling in general is probably something that really indoctrinates this comparison to others because we're being compared to others. Yes. Our teachers are comparing us to others. Like, you know, it's a, it's a competitive environment from the time where toddlers basically, you know, like, well, so-and-so is quiet and doing this thing that they're supposed to be doing, you know, they're coloring. Isn't that how being

Tali: 49:58

graded on a curve works too? Yeah. Doesn't that like kind of fuck it up for everybody

Cody: 50:02

else? It's just compared to everybody. Yeah.

Tali: 50:05

Or it's being compared to the best performer. Yeah. Right. There isn't like an objectivity to it. Like someone sets the bar and then we're all being compared to that

Cody: 50:15

score. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's interesting that we would be raised in an environment like that and then expect ourselves to have healthy relationships with comparison,

Tali: 50:25

or even healthier relationships with competitors. Like I have something on here, like you had mentioned, like, you know, Apollo told Rocky that he's not his component. Rocky is Rocky's component. His opponent. His opponent. Opponent. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, even with that teammate that I had, like I've told you how, when we had a mediated conversation it went fucking terribly. Of course, but, and you know, I ended up crying and everybody was walking back to the gym, all like defeated. But we ended up training on the same bar that day. I just was like, do you wanna train on my bar with me And and even when the whole thing with the doping came out, like I text her mm-hmm. I felt like it was so important for me to have like, compassion and respect for her, even though I hated her Like there were times where I thought she was like, put on this planet to ruin my life. But in that eastern culture way, I knew that her role in my life was important. And even if I didn't really believe it, I knew that I had to just think it. I had to try to embrace that. And I would like to think that more in terms of our other competitors that we see in our lives. And I think a reason that it can be daunting and scary is because we're only seeing the best of them, like you had said on social media. And I think breaking down that wall and allowing them to be potentially a friend, you know, like that can do a, that can undo a lot in terms of the way that we feel wired to feel a certain way about them. Yeah. And what they represent in our lives. Yeah.

Cody: 52:07

Yeah. We talked about reframing on past episodes and I. Can be a valuable tool for what we're talking about because your actions can be similar from an outside perspective, but your motivations internally can be very different. Yes. And your relationship to what causes you to act can really make a big difference in your subjective experience in life. Well, it makes being a happy

Tali: 52:31

person Well, and how complex is that to be internally driven and to respond externally. Mm-hmm. like those things seem really conflicting with one another. Yeah. In terms of like how they're challenging you. But that's why I think it's so important to develop your own sense of value. Mm-hmm. because otherwise, what's that saying? Like if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. It's that same idea I think, where if you like, you'll just be at the whim of whatever the circumstances. Are asking of you, and I mentioned getting, giving blood the other day or drawing blood, which didn't end up happening. I'm not, my veins are not cooperative at all and I think we gave it three tries before we were like, meh, no cigar. But I was telling you that maybe giving blood or getting my blood drawn needs to be what I was saying earlier that day about hiking and how I've kind of been telling myself that I detested all this time and just, you know, have a visceral reaction when someone asks me to go hiking with them and maybe withdrawing my blood. It should be the same thing. Like, I should question, do I really feel this way or have I let like one shitty experience make me believe this for the rest of my life? Mm-hmm. what a crutch that is, or what. what a way to hold myself back. I like to think of myself as someone who's very in control of their emotional response. Someone who has poise, someone who is okay with being uncomfortable. And the way that I respond to getting my blood drawn is like such a floppy cock version of me You know, like all of that goes out the window. I feel like I'm five again and the experience is terrible. But yesterday it was really different towards the end. Mm-hmm. you know, I felt like as my heart rate started to pick up and I started to feel faint, I was able to intervene somehow. You know, a lot of the circumstances were really great, but I felt really motivated in that moment to be like, I'm fucking done feeling this way.

Cody: 54:39

Yeah. Well you've done this before in another context, brilliantly which is dating. Like there had come a point where mm-hmm. you decided there was no such thing as a bad date because if it was a bad date, you were gonna have fun anyway. Mm-hmm. whether the guy

Tali: 54:53

and a bad date or not. I was gonna say a bad date is like, not even that things are going wrong, it's just like, you know, if you don't feel chemistry with somebody, it's easy to just be like, all right, well now I'm just here, here. This is a waste of time here. Yeah. Yeah, I was dating a lot at the time and so I was like, I can't, I can't let this like take me down.

Cody: 55:12

Yeah. But I think that's a good example of reframing, you know? Yeah. The activity is the same. You're still on the same date. It's how you're choosing to internalize it.

Tali: 55:22

Well, and it also no longer became dependent on the other person's actions. Yeah. It was about myself and so that feels very relevant to giving your opponent power. Mm-hmm. as opposed to being motivated internally and using them as kind of a tool. Mm-hmm. Right. I don't know if that counts as using people, but I think about like boxing and how, you know, the mechanisms that they're training in the gym with all these like, crazy pieces of equipment, those are to replicate what your opponent is doing. Mm-hmm. you have to just think about that opponent in the same way. Yeah. They're a tool for you and Well,

Cody: 55:58

and they're sparring partners for fighters. Yeah. And sparring partners. You know, there'll be five guys going against one in a training session sometimes because you're going through fresh opponents, uhhuh, And that's part of your exercise is to face real people in. Well, they're fresh. Right. And you know, they do one round each when you do five. You know,

Tali: 56:18

and I don't know if this is like, flowery of me and not realistic, but like, you have to use those, I think about using those opportunities as a chance for you to get better, not to beat them. Mm-hmm. But are those the same thing, which is different sentiments?

Cody: 56:35

Well, I don't think they are exactly the same thing, because it's like we talked about you know, Rocky didn't win that fight, but he won his own battle. Like he made it, he, he went the distance when no one thought he could. And he trained. as hard as he could. Like he did everything he possibly could have to get as far as he could. And so he won himself even though he lost the match. And so I feel like that's a little bit of what we're talking about and what I was talking about in business even. Like if, if I can achieve the things that I want to achieve in business, I don't give a shit if other people are doing better. That's not the point. The the where I've fallen into a trap is sort of on the negative side of that, where when I'm not achieving what I think I should be able to, then I compare myself to other people. You know, this happened in my gym a couple times early in, in the earlier days. There was a time when I became a CrossFit affiliate. Before most people knew what CrossFit was like. The elevator pitch for my gym would have to spend, you know, a, an inordinate amount of time explaining what CrossFit is. Mm-hmm. because there was not training like that at the time. People really take this for granted. Now that you know all the crazy shit you see on Instagram and everything, it's like you did not see that stuff back in 2006 that didn't exist. The only training you ever saw in 2006 was either for a sport or body building, flat out period. Full stop. That's it. And so to do these, you know, mixed mo modality training like CrossFit was, was something that nobody had ever heard of. So the only reason I say that is to explain how early I was in the game and I'd been trying for like three or four years to establish a, a gym that was like self-sustaining, you know, something that we could pay the bills and I could draw a salary and support my family and have a successful community of thriving athletes. Training at my gym and. and I was three or four years in and somebody else set up shop in the same town. And because he was on, he was like a volunteer firefighter or something like that. So he knew a whole lot of law enforcement and firefighters in, and his wife's family financed their gym. So when they opened their doors, it was all brand new. Perfect. And then they had like 50 law enforcement people like show up. And so literally within his first three months, he had more members than I did after three fucking years. And I was like, this is, this is shit I felt so shitty. And I, and I feel bad saying that because it's like, what, what difference does it make? Like that didn't, it didn't necessarily affect me. at the time, it was really hard not to compare myself. Like, what am I doing? Like, I, but you had

Tali: 59:30

mentioned this earlier in the podcast. I can't even remember what we were saying, but you were talking about like, we don't have any idea what other people are equipped with when I was telling you about doing research. Yeah. I think it was, you know, and I tried to do my best to find out like, well, what are their advantages? What do they have that I don't

Cody: 59:48

have? Yeah. Well, and at the time, I think part of what was feeding into that negative comparison was some lies that I had been told by mentors. Because there were mentors out there who were like, well, if you build it, you know, they will come kind of bullshit.

Tali: 1:00:03

You've

Cody: 1:00:03

abandoned that, huh? Well, it's fucking trash. It's, it's a, it's a shitty movie with a shitty actor. It's a movie. Ah, field of Dreams. I'm just gonna like put it out there. Kevin Costner sucks. And Whoa, whoa,

Tali: 1:00:14

whoa. What is going on? No, I think that the, I thought we loved Kevin Costner.

Cody: 1:00:20

No, he's got a couple good movies. I dunno. I think he's one of those actors that's like hit and miss and he's Bill as a superstar. I know I'm gonna piss a bunch of people off out there who are listening to this, but

Tali: 1:00:30

I just feel like you're taking the spirit of this podcast and like going down that scary path that I'm like, you don't have to go there and you're taking it. So like, can I reel you back in please, please. No, that's

Cody: 1:00:41

fine. I just, my point is, is that people take this as serious philosophy. Like, oh, if you are good enough, people will show up at your door. That's fucking bullshit. You can be the best coach and still flounder as a business person. Oh yeah, you can be, you can be the best athlete and get injured and you're a fucking out. Like how many times have we seen that? That's like a true story. You know, we can pull lots of examples. So this whole idea of like just do your best and everything's gonna work out is just flowery garbage.

Tali: 1:01:13

I have something sort of similar to add to that in terms of like an example where, you know, I ended up. leaving my team, leaving the sport. And that's because a lot of like my emotional hangups are like the way that I feel about weightlifting, like has gotten in the way of just the physical pursuit. Mm-hmm. if I didn't care about those relationships as deeply as I do and let them get to me, I might still be on top of my game at this point. You know, that might not be, maybe that might be a quality that I have that does not give me an advantage in the sport. I don't know how to separate my, you know, physical pursuits or my aspirations from my social environment that determined everything for me. Yeah. You know, and that might be something that I either have to learn and push through or I have to take what I do well. and take it elsewhere where that does thrive. You know, we talk a lot about assessing in here and reassessment and I think that that makes a lot of sense in business too. Like it's kind of like finding your market, right? You have to see where your skills are gonna be best applied. Yeah. Yeah. And this person who knew all those people, all those firemen, like that really worked well for them. You know, that's a really valuable quality to have in this particular arena, right? Yeah. Membership keeps the ship afloat.

Cody: 1:02:43

Yeah. Well the reason I bring up the whole field of dreams stupid thing is that mm-hmm. like there was real business advice given by real mentors who seem to know what they were talking about was like, you be the best coach and the cream will will rise to the top. Like you be the best coach. Oh, you talking about Glassman? Yeah, I'm talking about Greg Glassman. You be the better coach and it doesn't matter what somebody down the street is doing and. it's bullshit. Like you can be the most amazing coach in town. You are the most amazing coach. No, but I'm not saying that. I'm, I'm not trying to like put myself

Tali: 1:03:17

up there. No, I know. I just want you to know that that's how I feel.

Cody: 1:03:19

I'm just saying that that does not make your business successful. Because if somebody can outmarket you out, network you, outshine you out, location you, those things matter. Fuck yeah, they do. And to say that, you know, if you build it, they will come, is just, it's, it's a fantasy from a movie. It's not reality. And so that caused me to kind of spiral into this comparison loop cuz it's like, God, I thought I was being the best I could be, and yet I have like 23 fucking members here after three years and this guy's got like 75 members after three months. Like, what is happening? I was just, and it it, I took a huge hit. Like psychologically from that, when I'm not a competitive person, like if I had already had an established gym that was like, like I said, paying the bills, I could draw a salary. My family was supported. People in the gym were, were thriving and we have, you know, this great growing community. Then somebody else doing the same thing down the street would not have affected me negatively. I would've been like, all right, that's so cool. We should get together. We should do competitions together. We should do shared events. You know, we, we should be on the same train together. How exciting. But when I had been knocking my head against a wall for three years and then somebody comes in in three months and just makes it look easy, fuck. That was hard. That

Tali: 1:04:45

was hard. We also, we also did talk about mentorship and that you gotta shop around, you know, find the right situation. That resonates. Yeah. And I know that mentorship is something that you've wanted to invest in for a long time, but how many people were holding you back from doing that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of people were, that you were working with, whether it was your. business partners or your part, your romantic partner. Yeah. Who was like, do not invest in this. Yeah. And when your money's tied up with other people, you can't just go rogue. Mm-hmm. you know, like there are real restraints and you have wanted to have a business coach forever and now we're doing it.

Cody: 1:05:21

Yeah. It's funny too, I don't mind sharing the numbers, do you? About what? About our coach experience? I don't think so. So back then I was really would've benefited from, I think even in hindsight now from working with Chris Cooper and Two Brain Business which I'll link to for any coaches that are out there, you should check'em out. And it's so funny because back then it was like two grand. That's all I needed. Whoa. Was like, whoa. Two grand to get started with them. And it was just this insurmountable hurdle that we never seemed to have enough money to spend on hiring this business mentor that could help. Yeah, and I'm sure

Tali: 1:05:58

there was money for all sorts of other

Cody: 1:05:59

things. Oh yeah. Well, when some cash flow would come in, a lot of times it wasn't from my source. It was like my ex-wife's inheritance come in, or my new business partners would bring in a bunch of money. And so the money wasn't mine to spend. So I would be like, we should do this. We should do this mentorship thing. And they're like, no, I think 10 new rowers is a better investment, you know? Oh man. And it's like so. The reason I bring up the specific numbers now though, is that you and I just made the decision to hire a business coach for$10,000. Yep. And

Tali: 1:06:36

and we didn't pay that up front.

Cody: 1:06:37

No. I mean, we're, we're paying a loan. Yeah. And so we basically took a business loan to get the business coach and a lot of people I think would just scoff at that. But so far you feel like it's worth it. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Oh, fuck yeah. And we're still just scratching the surface, like we've like just again, started a baby. Yeah. We are gonna be in this like business systems setup, you know, program, whatever you wanna call it, for the next two years. We've been in a month. So in just a month we've got more direction and more dialed in than we've had in the last year. Yeah. Because we have found the right mentor. So anyway you know, at no point does our business mentor encourage us to compare ourselves to other. people, except for market research. You know, it's like there's a way to break through the noise by comparison, comparison, but as far as our business objectives and where we're going and how fast we can get there, it's not a, well, you should be here by this time. It's, let's do this as fast as possible. Let's it get you profitable as fast

Tali: 1:07:43

as possible. Mm-hmm. and that's the main objective.

Cody: 1:07:46

Yeah. And it's all kind of comparison with ourselves. Like, what are we doing?

Tali: 1:07:52

And well, it's giving us a chance to, to develop new skills. Mm-hmm. you know, like I was saying, maybe if I had the skills to compartmentalize my personal life and my weightlifting life, maybe I would've been wildly more successful. You know, I like to think that I did a lot with the time that I was there, but I could have kept going and built off of that than feeling like I'm restarting. Yeah. Which, you know, has its own path and beauty to it too. I'm just saying, looking back, it's easy to feel that way. Yeah.

Cody: 1:08:22

So I put on here metrics episode 23, which is the one we just published. So that's gonna be, by the time this comes out, it's gonna be kind of old. But episode 23, we talk about metrics. And I think this is an important conjunction in here with comparison because if you're, your metrics are based off of other people, that's a, we have a natural tendency to compare ourselves to other people. But if your metrics are on your own, like, have I been more consistent this month on this practice that I want to do more than last month? Am I making progress on this lift? You know, it's, it's an internal metrics system that I think can help bypass some of this comparison because you can see progress in yourself. This also relates to an article that I just posted on our website too, so I'll link back to that as well, but, it relates to the idea that if you're not taking metrics, I think it's easier to fall into the comparison trap. Yeah. Because if you're not taking metrics, it's easy just to look around you for reference, right. Of whether you're improving or not. And the only way you can do that is to compare yourself to other people.

Tali: 1:09:32

Right. And I, sorry, I was just thinking about how, I probably mentioned in that episode that, you know, WAG has like 15 different markers of progress. Mm-hmm. so that, you know, if you feel like one area you're not making progress, like, like the obvious ones, like weight and composition. Like, is my sleep better? How are my joints feeling? Like there are lots of different ways to re remind yourself that you are making progress and that you are creating change in your life. And I think it does really help to have various points for reference and data.

Cody: 1:10:08

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I guess that's one takeaway we could put on the podcast here is just if you find yourself comparing yourself to others too often, discouraged by other people's success, you know, overly competitive in any arena perhaps take some time and write down some metrics that you want to start tracking for yourself that are internal metrics. And by internal, I mean within your control. You know, we, you brought that up a little bit ago and I meant to really highlight it that you don't always have control over other people. And so in a competitive sport, you know, you don't have control over your competition's performance. No. You only have control over yours. And so it's very important to in life, recognize what you have control over and what you don't. Yeah. And you know, it's like the serenity prayer, you know, kind of thing. Like the wisdom to know the difference. Yes. And.

Tali: 1:11:05

Because we create so much of our own suffering. Mm-hmm. and this is another one of those examples or one of those arenas where we really can create a lot of our own suffering. And how unnecessary is that? Yeah. It's just a shift in focus.

Cody: 1:11:17

Yeah. And it just kind of goes back to that mistake that I had made comparing myself to the other gym in town that, you know, it's like their success didn't have anything to do with me one way or the other. It didn't affect my gym. I mean, they were across town. I, you know, I eventually, I actually sent people to his gym at some point because it's like, well, they got a, well, a good sport band, they got a lot of, you know, competitor type people over there, and you want to do competitions, so maybe that'd be a better environment for you. And I had like a family gym, you know, lots of various people in there. And so I, I think I was better at modifying workouts and making sure that anybody at any level could kind of participate and. I came to recognize that there was a contrast in the gyms and so I'd refer people out to him, but there was still a lot of like pain up front in that that was pointless because I didn't need to be comparing myself to them. Yeah. That was just my frame of

Tali: 1:12:15

reference though. But it might've been interesting, like if you met up with that gym owner and let them know more about you. Mm-hmm. and then if they get a client that doesn't really fit in with them, they'd be like, check out Cody's gym. Yeah, I tried and that was like what I was saying earlier about like, it's almost like the taking your fear to tee. Mm-hmm. is like, try to make that opponent less of your opponent in that way. Like you can have respect and a friendship even, even though you're in quote unquote competition with each other. You know, all of my weightlifting friends, not all of'em, but a lot of my weightlifting friends were quote unquote competition of mine. Yeah. Like one of my Favorite people to compete with Chelsea, who lived down in Eugene. Like I loved hanging out with Chelsea. And she and I would often be competing against each other. You know, like not all meets were big enough that like we would have our own flight for weight class. It would be like a Sinclair Total, whoever lifted the most per pound body weight, you know, that that puts us all in the pool together. Mm-hmm. and I did better at meats that I embraced that friendship over the competition when I felt like I had to beat someone. It all went to shit. It really did. Yeah. It just didn't allow me to do my best because my priorities were off. No, that's interesting. My priorities were not about myself and being in my body and being able to make corrections Yeah. In a four second lift. You know, like those things are really important to grasp in order to compete well. But if I'm concerned about what she's doing over there, my focus is in the wrong place. Yeah. I can't manage myself. Yeah.

Cody: 1:13:56

Yeah. Well think about the other arenas that we can, we can do that in

Tali: 1:14:01

I'D in our, I'd like to take Yeah, for sure. I'll have to sit and think about that though. But one thing that I did write down, you were saying to maybe take a moment and write down some different markers for progress. Another little exercise that I wanna suggest. And I thought about making this as a part of our five questions for our partners that we're gonna be working with. No one can blank like I can. And then with our partners, it'd be like, no one can blank like you do And I think when it comes to the partnership, like it gives your someone an opportunity to see what their partner sees in them. Mm-hmm. as being their. What makes them special. And I think that that's really sweet to have that exchange. But I think it's also really important to be aware of what your superpower is and to lead from that, you know, bring the focus back. Yeah. Don't be focused on like what that person can do. Yeah. Because that's them. Right. And you should be happy for them. Yeah. That's what

Cody: 1:15:06

kind of what I was trying to allude to is that yeah, I don't look at business as competition. Well it

Tali: 1:15:12

helps to be older. I think my very first note was this is really a concept that I only feel like I understand now in my thirties. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, being out of school is really helpful. And I feel like living out here is really helpful. A lot of the folks that I grew up with, I'm gonna venture to guess that most of them probably have master's degrees. They probably live really comfortably. You know, a lot of them came from family money also. And I always felt really different from all of them and a lot of that I felt really ashamed of, and, you know, I would run into them like here and there in early adulthood like in my early twenties when we're all kind of like figuring out stuff on our own. And I would have people who were like, some of my best friends, like, rub that shit in. Mm-hmm. of like all the stuff that they were doing. And it did not seem like it came from a place of like, you know, it's kind of like when you talk to people in a conversation, like you ask them questions to show that you are interested in them. Mm-hmm. where as, you know, when someone's just talking about themselves all the time, it really feels like they could give two fucks about what's going on in your life. Yeah. And I just have one friend in mind that. We were always kind of competitive with each other when it came to boys and popularity and stuff like that. And I remember meeting her, meeting up with her an adult life cuz we were living in the same neighborhood and I was really excited to see her. I would've loved to catch up more, but I don't know if this is just the way I felt and I was like being overly sensitive about it and kind of tapping into that competitive groove we had. But it felt like that had not changed. That she was just wanting to one up me and make me feel bad about stuff. And yeah, I ended up just staying away from that relationship cuz maybe that groove was so deep that I wouldn't have been able to like come from my best self. Yeah. Yeah.

Cody: 1:17:19

Well I think that's an important lesson too, is to choose your environment as much as you can and choose your association as much as you can. Yeah. That's two things we don't get in school and These artificial environments like school rush hour traffic, like all these kind of things. These, I was just thinking these really artificial environments tend to bring out this aspect of us of comparison and competition and nature isn't so much that way. You know, the, there's an idea of Darwinian Darwinian being survival of the fittest, and so it's presented as a competitive arena of species, and that's not necessarily always the case. In fact, if you really look at nature and evolution, it's more often a. cooperation ver versus a competition.

Tali: 1:18:14

And that cooperation has to start with you. Yeah. You cannot force other people to do it for you to make you more comfortable. Yeah. You have to kind of let that shit go yourself. Yeah. I've noticed that a lot in my adulthood. Like I said, this is kind of a newer thing that I have internalized where, you know, in new friendships that I'm making, like it's easy to feel like competitive with, you know, people who feel very similar to me or same age or have this or that. And I've had to just kind of like let my guard down and offer myself holy and to be like, I'm not trying to be competitive with you in order for that person to let their guard down too. Mm-hmm. I have to give up the game first. Yeah. Otherwise, could have ridden that out forever.

Cody: 1:19:03

But I think you bring up a good point too, with choosing your association, because if people aren't into cooperation, then sometimes you just gotta let'em go.

Tali: 1:19:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, some people fucking thrive on being competitive. I mean, yeah. And maybe not competitive, but even being like, as far as to say like bullies, like they get off on that. Granted, being a bully comes with its own facades and like there's a lot of acting out from, you know, things that other people cannot change for them. But I think competitiveness or being a competitive person, you have to decide how you want to engage with that. You have to make that choice. Yeah. Otherwise it'll turn into a monster. And that monster might be the aggressor or it might feel like you're being like someone's being aggressive towards you. Yeah. Yeah.

Cody: 1:19:56

Yeah. You got anything else you wanted to bring up? We have a coaching call in

Tali: 1:20:03

seven minutes. Seven minutes? Okay. We should probably wrap it up then, Okay. That's not very much time. Yeah, sure. Anything else? No, I think this is a great one because I think competition can feel very one-sided and I love the beauty of it. As well, like I've been prompted to participate in a power lifting meet in seven months and I've asked you if you wanna do it with me, and I don't know if it's gonna go through or not, because I don't necessarily care to compete and bench press. But part of me is like, If I have to, maybe I'll try to embrace it. But what the idea of competition does for me in terms of my motivation and excitement around something is really fucking magical. So that's something that's really cool about it that is relevant right now. So I hope to keep you all tuned in on what happens there. And maybe I'll be a competitive power lifter this coming year.

Cody: 1:20:58

Well it can just be fun anyway. Yeah. Well, not to compare, but I'm really glad that you were on it today cuz I feel like I was not Oh, on it, but, thanks. Comparing to myself as well, I think you know, I've done better in the past, but I'm glad you carried the show. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it.

Tali: 1:21:15

See, thank your opponents. Yeah. For what they do for your life and for your podcast show,

Cody: 1:21:23

So thanks hun. I love you. Thank you. I love you too. And we'll see y'all next week.

Tali: 1:21:27

Next week. This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh. Check out our writing, coaching services and home studying adventures at live all your life.com. For show notes, resources mentioned, or to submit a question or contribution, click on the podcast tab.